Neil Down Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 On 15/03/2018 at 12:51 PM, woody2 said: but the uk buys zero gas from russia...... I'll just park this here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Lxxx said: The Russian state is again the bogey man and everything from Trump to Brexit to chemical weapons is being used to develop a narrative. It's not about developing a narrative. It's about identifying patterns which already exists. For example, Putin's support for populism and nationalism in the democracies is about seeding instability. He would prefer to deal with nations than with united policies. Radio Moscow used to be all over the airwaves every night in the 70s and early 80s - hooking those who imagined an equivalence between NATO and the Soviets. Today RT, Sputnik, InfoWars, ZeroHedge, Breitbart etc have filled that space. Conspiracism and an ugly intellectualised populism has replaced scientific Marxism as the new crackpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just now, pongo said: It's not about developing a narrative. It's about identifying patterns which already exists. For example, Putin's support for populism and nationalism in the democracies is about seeding instability. He would prefer to deal with nations than with united policies. Radio Moscow used to be all over the airwaves every night in the 70s and early 80s - hooking those who imagined an equivalence between NATO and the Soviets. Today RT, Sputnik, InfoWars, ZeroHedge< Breitbart etc have filled that space. Conspiracism and and ugly intellectualised populism has replaced scientific Marxism as the new crackpot. Yes of course Pongo. He's preying on the immature, disaffected and intellectually challenged whilst the more refined amongst us can see straight through it. We know. It's the underlying theme of most of your posts. You'd probably get a more balanced view of the world if you ventured from your own backside once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lxxx said: Yes of course Pongo. He's preying on the immature, disaffected and intellectually challenged whilst the more refined amongst us can see straight through it. We know. It's the underlying theme of most of your posts. You'd probably get a more balanced view of the world if you ventured from your own backside once in a while. Rather than you being quite so rude, it might be more interesting if you addressed the specific points of what I have said which you disagree and explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Chinahand said: My view of Russia is that it is a thug-ocracy. Big thugs have littler thugs behind their backs to knife them and littler thugs have lesser thugs and so on ad infinitum. If you are a business man or small trader you could be shaken down by the bureaucracy for fees, back-taxes or a donation for that certificate you haven't applied in triplicate for, but also some bigger thug might turn up and take over your business with menaces, and even oligarchs aren't free of this risk; if Putin decides you are out, a billionaire can easily be stripped of 90% of his wealth and exiled. Putin is the biggest meat grinder in this machine, but out of his line of sight there are multiple other actors all grinding away. Most, if the Siloviki turn up, profess loyalty to Mother Russia, but they are basically out for themselves and theft, blackmail, murder and appropriation are standard parts of their toolkit, learnt in part from emulating Putin. This is the environment where murderous power is proudly and openly used, all the while getting a blessing from the Patriach and adding a bit of anti-semitism or xenophobia into the mix. It is poisonous, and uses poisons, radiological and neurologic, to make their point. It isn't that surprising many get out, taking what they've got to London and else where, nor is it surprising that Putin is culpable for bringing murder onto British streets. Personally I think he sanctioned it, but maybe some patriot in the grubby Siloviki/mafia world decided to take his revenge on a turbulent priest to please his unknowing boss. Yes, it could be the Ukrainians out for revenge for Putin invading them and bringing his war and corruption and little green thugs into their land, personally I doubt it, but again the spider at the centre of that nasty little web is still Putin pulling thuggish strings. We can't be hasty say the useful idiots, we're just as bad as them parrot pundits on RT. No. They are different, and beware of them, they kill quickly to get what they want and see hesitancy as weakness. Ask Georgia, Ukraine, and see worried looks in the Baltics. Putin wants them back and treats them just as he would an oligarch who gets out of line. much like china then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 33 minutes ago, Neil Down said: I'll just park this here... you can park it anywhere you like, it doesn't change the fact the uk doesn't buy gas direct from russia.... its an easy concept...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, woody2 said: you can park it anywhere you like, it doesn't change the fact the uk doesn't buy gas direct from russia.... its an easy concept...... Here we go, fakefact woody2 backtracking. Your comment was:- "but the uk buys zero gas from russia......" you never mentioned directly or indirectly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 @woody2 re: China. In some ways yes. The Chinese are more ordered and so the thuggery has been monopolised within the CCP, but if you cross them they’ll crush you as if you were an ant. There are few more thuggish organisations than the CCP but it dresses it up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just now, Neil Down said: Here we go, fakefact woody2 backtracking. Your comment was:- "but the uk buys zero gas from russia......" you never mentioned directly or indirectly... and it doesn't.... if you bother to check the thread before posting it would help.... no backtracking from me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 What is your point Woody? The UK gets about 15% of its gas from Russia. Does it matter if there is a chain of buyers and sellers along the way? Why are you nit picking? It is the source which matters not the final seller, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chinahand said: What is your point Woody? The UK gets about 15% of its gas from Russia. Does it matter if there is a chain of buyers and sellers along the way? Why are you nit picking? It is the source which matters not the final seller, surely? It's because he's a balloon knot China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, quilp said: So this situation has reached a point where the same state, which under Tony Blair's 'leadership' reassured the world that Saddam Hussein had Weapons of mass destruction which could be used in as little as 45 minutes, is now telling the world the same thing about Russia and Putin. It takes about 45 minutes to prep a binary wmd - Jane's Weapon Systems ie in the public domain. You know, like Iraq used against the Pasdaran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 So wtf has that to do with my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 57 minutes ago, pongo said: Rather than you being quite so rude, it might be more interesting if you addressed the specific points of what I have said which you disagree and explain why. Rudeness comes in a variety of forms. The Russian state may well be operating down a well worn path of creating instability, using various methods of media as opposed to the legendary Radio Moscow. It would be foolish to think they don't, as such things obviously undermine western society. However the world has moved on from the 70's. Access to information has increased, the world has grown smaller and there are no good guys/bad guys, only differing sets of people vying for power and influence, both state sponsored and otherwise. There are unlikely alliances, corporations transcend national boundaries and individuals now hold more wealth than countries. Point being, on the thread subject matter, to take everything into account about how complicated the world now is isn't conspiratorial or lacking in intelligence, it's probably the wisest possible course of action instead of jumping into a very predictable kneejerk reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just now, quilp said: So wtf has that to do with my earlier post? NFC - I can't remember. Having a bit of a mare today. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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