woolley Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 So the daughter is recovering. Interesting. If I was Putin I'd be saying something along the lines of: "Of course we could not countenance such a dispicable act but if we did, she certainly wouldn't be recovering, so here is further proof of our non-involvement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Has anyone seen the evidence that Russia did this? Has anyone heard the term "False Flag"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, gerrydandridge said: Has anyone seen the evidence that Russia did this? Has anyone heard the term "False Flag"? Good to see the old conspiracy tropes never die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 17 hours ago, Chinahand said: My view is that Putin has been getting away with things for years - Ukraine, Georgia, Estonia all have suffered either actual or digital attacks. His followers, either under orders or with a nod and a wink, have carried out multiple hits both in Russia and abroad with very little come back - politicians just made bleating noises when polonium was used in central London. He knew killing a traitor would likely enhance his image to the type of the Russian electorate he has been courting and he didn't expect much come back. He miscalculated - it is interesting that it took Theresa May to show Britain still has some background - which shows how the media ,with it weak and wobbly meme ,have forgotten she had quite some guts as home secretary, and still has some steel taking on and guiding the country through a difficult and complex process where she'll get very little recognition of her efforts. May, and that unpredictable joker in the pack, Trump (who if you remember, rocketed Assad and showed he wasn't as afraid of red lines as Obama while wining and dining China's president Xi) do understand that power needs to be given a stern response or it will simply take some more. Putin thought he could act with impunity - he's got his wrists slapped, and a marker has been laid down. Expelling some diplomats isn't the path to war, but I have to say the West's united response to this has cheered me. Standing up and saying attempting to murder people with a chemical agent is wrong is something the West should and can unite around. I'm glad it has. Hardly a scientific approach to viewing this still under investigation poisoning though china? I thought the conclusions always came after everything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 And though repeated enough times to now make it a fact, was it ever proved that it was russia that killed litvinenko? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: And though repeated enough times to now make it a fact, was it ever proved that it was russia that killed litvinenko? Pretty much, yes. "Detectives traced three distinct polonium trails in and out of London, at three different dates, which according to the investigation suggests Andrey Lugovoy and Dmitry "Kovtun made two failed attempts to administer polonium to Litvinenko before the final and successful one. The first attempt took place on 16 October 2006, when radioactive traces were found in all places visited by the FSB operatives before and after their meeting with Litvinenko. They administered the poison to his tea, but he did not drink it. Apparently, Lugovoy and Kovtun did not fully realize they were handling a radioactive poison. Journalist Luke Harding described their behaviour as "idiotic, verging on suicidal"; while handling a leaky container, they stored it in their hotel rooms, used ordinary towels to clean up leaks, and eventually disposed of the poison in the toilet. On 17 October, perhaps realizing they contaminated their rooms, they prematurely checked out, moved to another hotel, and left London the next day. Another unsuccessful assassination attempt took place on 25 October, when Lugovoy and Kovtun flew to London again. They left radioactive traces again in their hotel prior to meeting Litvinenko, but did not administer the poison, perhaps due to security cameras in the meeting room. They again disposed of the poison via their room's toilet, and left London.[40] The third attempt to poison Litvinenko took place at around 5 pm of 1 November in the Millennium Hotel in Grosvenor Square. The bus he travelled in to the hotel had no signs of radioactivity – but large amounts had been detected at the hotel.[41] Polonium was subsequently found in a fourth-floor room and in a cup in the Pine Bar at the hotel.[42] After the Millennium bar, Litvinenko stopped at the office of Boris Berezovsky. He used a fax machine, where radioactive contamination was found later. At 6 pm, Akhmed Zakayev picked Litvinenko up and brought him home to Muswell Hill. The amount of radioactivity left by Litvinenko in the car was so significant that the car was rendered unusable.[43] Everything that he touched at home during the next three days was contaminated. His family was unable to return to the house even six months later. His wife tested positive for ingesting polonium, but did not leave a secondary trail behind her. This suggested that anyone who left a trail could not have picked up the polonium from Litvinenko (possibly, including Lugovoy and Kovtun).[43] The patterns and levels of radioactivity the assassins left behind suggested that Litvinenko ingested polonium, whereas Lugovoy and Kovtun handled it directly.[43] The human body dilutes polonium before excreting it in sweat, which results in a reduced radioactivity level. There were also traces of Po-210 found at the Hey Jo/Abracadabra bar, Dar Marrakesh restaurant, and Lambeth-Mercedes taxis.[44] Besides Litvinenko, only two people left polonium trails: Lugovoy and Kovtun, who were school friends and worked previously for Russian intelligence in the KGBand the GRU, respectively.[43] They left more significant traces of polonium than Litvinenko, indicating that they handled the radioactive material directly, and did not ingest it.[43] Lugovoy and Kovtun met Litvinenko in the Millennium hotel bar twice, on 1 November (when the poisoning took place), and earlier, on 16 October. Trails left by Lugovoy and Kovtun started on 16 October, in the same sushi bar where Litvinenko was poisoned later, but at a different table. It was assumed that their first meeting with Litvinenko was either a rehearsal of the future poisoning, or an unsuccessful attempt at the poisoning.[43] Traces left by Lugovoy were also found in the office of Berezovsky that he visited on 31 October, a day before his second meeting with Litvinenko. Traces left by Kovtun were found in Hamburg, Germany. He left them on his way to London on 28 October.[43] The traces were found in passenger jets[45][46] BA875 and BA873 from Moscow to Heathrow on 25 and 31 October, as well as flights BA872 and BA874 from Heathrow to Moscow on 28 October and 3 November.[47][48] Andrey Lugovoy has said he flew from London to Moscow on a 3 November flight. He stated he arrived in London on 31 October to attend the football match between Arsenal and CSKA Moscow on 1 November.[49] When the news broke that a radioactive substance had been used to murder Litvinenko, a team of scientists rushed to find out how far the contamination had spread. It led them on a trail involving hundreds of people and dozens of locations.[50] British Airways later published a list of 221 flights of the contaminated aircraft, involving around 33,000 passengers, and advised those potentially affected to contact the UK Department of Health for help. On 5 December, they issued an email to all of their customers, informing them that the aircraft had all been declared safe by the UK's Health Protection Agency and would be re-entering service." From Wiki, but well established from other sources too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 More keystone cops. The fsb seem pretty amateur to me. Not sure poirot would always look to the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Noticed this while reading Barrie's Berxit thread, the Russians want consular access to the daughter... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/31/foreign-office-considers-russian-consular-access-to-yulia-skripal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 to finish the job....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 14 questions for the uk from the russian embassy. Be interesting to see which angle they uk take while refusing to answer any of them. HomeWorld News Moscow confronts London with 14 questions on ‘fabricated’ Skripal case Published time: 31 Mar, 2018 16:51Edited time: 31 Mar, 2018 17:00 © Daniel LEal-Olivas / AFP 7 Russia’s Embassy in London has sent a list of 14 questions to the UK Foreign Ministry, demanding that it reveals details of the investigation into the nerve-agent poisoning of former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. The questions, provided in full below, include a demand to clarify whether samples of the nerve agent “Novichok” have ever been developed in the UK. 1. Why has Russia been denied the right of consular access to the two Russian citizens, who came to harm on British territory? 2. What specific antidotes and in what form were the victims injected with? How did such antidotes come into the possession of British doctors at the scene of the incident? 3. On what grounds was France involved in technical cooperation in the investigation of the incident, in which Russian citizens were injured? 4. Did the UK notify the OPCW (Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons) of France’s involvement in the investigation of the Salisbury incident? 5. What does France have to do with the incident, involving two Russian citizens in the UK? 6. What rules of UK procedural legislation allow for the involvement of a foreign state in an internal investigation? 7. What evidence was handed over to France to be studied and for the investigation to be conducted? 8. Were the French experts present during the sampling of biomaterial from Sergei and Yulia Skripal? 9. Was the study of biomaterials from Sergei and Yulia Skripal conducted by the French experts and, if so, in which specific laboratories? 10. Does the UK have the materials involved in the investigation carried out by France? 11. Have the results of the French investigation been presented to the OPCW Technical Secretariat? 12. Based on what attributes was the alleged “Russian origin” of the substance used in Salisbury established? 13. Does the UK have control samples of the chemical warfare agent, which British representatives refer to as “Novichok”? 14. Have the samples of a chemical warfare agent of the same type as “Novichok” (in accordance to British terminology) or its analogues been developed in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It matters not, the TV says it was the Russians, sadly that is good enough for 99% of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I'd rank question 12 as the most important question that won't be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Though question 2 is not a bad one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 On 29/03/2018 at 6:05 PM, Chinahand said: What pipeline Lxxx? The one that will run through all the Middle Eastern countries we have "liberated". Russia/Iran wanted one that went "one way", however, the West didn't like that idea, and is if by "magic" the Arab Spring happened. http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/is-the-fight-over-a-gas-pipeline-fuelling-the-worlds-bloodiest-conflict/news-story/74efcba9554c10bd35e280b63a9afb74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 On 29/03/2018 at 10:23 PM, woolley said: So the daughter is recovering. Interesting. If I was Putin I'd be saying something along the lines of: "Of course we could not countenance such a dispicable act but if we did, she certainly wouldn't be recovering, so here is further proof of our non-involvement." 'Military-grade' isn't quite what it used to be hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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