Lxxx Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, P.K. said: No. He almost certainly signed it off and the agency who committed the act chose an extremly embarrassing time to carry it out. In all large organisations shit happens.... Satire doesn't really work in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: So you are saying that there wasn't a uprising of hate crimes post Brexit? Even the Home Office acknowledges this to be true. We live in world where the in post Brexit Britain someone tried to make "Punish a Muslim Day" a thing. reporting yes, actual crimes no..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: So you are saying that there wasn't a uprising of hate crimes post Brexit? Even the Home Office acknowledges this to be true. We live in world where the in post Brexit Britain someone tried to make "Punish a Muslim Day" a thing. Deplorable. 'Punish a Brexiteer Day' would be more socially acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lxxx said: Deplorable. 'Punish a Brexiteer Day' would be more socially acceptable. I am not suggesting anything of the sort. Any "Punish X group" thing is hateful and a sorry indication of the way things are going in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, quilp said: The reporting of hate-crimes has become a political tool. What constitutes hate-crime sits now even more comfortably under the ever-widening umbrella of appropriation and advantage for certain political and ideological ends. One NGO group was recently roundly criticised for inflating its 'research' and figures: raising its profile and garnering sympathy for its social group by adopting the language and stance of victimhood, a tactic becoming more commonplace in our culture and one which plays upon some liberal notion of fake, enforced tolerance through appeasement by alluding to the projection of historical 'crimes' like colonialism and some vague white-supremacist notion thrown in to cower society and authority from speaking out. It's a very effective and convincing tool in the hands of the unscrupulous. Which NGO? Would you mind using shorter sentences please. My attention span isn't what it once was. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lxxx said: Satire doesn't really work in this instance. Not satire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: I am not suggesting anything of the sort. Any "Punish X group" thing is hateful and a sorry indication of the way things are going in the UK. However the comments that you have exhibited in the past on here to anyone who mentions anything positive about Trump or Brexit leads down the same path and contributes to a similar outcome. You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: So you are saying that there wasn't a uprising of hate crimes post Brexit? Even the Home Office acknowledges this to be true. We live in world where the in post Brexit Britain someone tried to make "Punish a Muslim Day" a thing. No, I acknowledge there was a rise in 'hate-crime' following the vote. I am stating that it is used as a political tool. And the criteria for what constitutes 'hate-crime' has become a very grey area with more 'offences' falling conveniently under the umbrella label to the advantage of political and ideological interests. As you brought islam into the mix using the anti-muslim letters, I'd like a yes or no answer to one question. From your world-view, are the crimes committed by hundreds of men of one ethnic group against many more thousands of under-age girls of another ethnic group, a racial hate-crime? Were they targeted by their race. And 'tell MAMA' what do you know or have even bothered to discover about this dubious anti-muslim monitoring group? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/10108098/Muslim-hate-monitor-to-lose-backing.html Couldn't be a 'false-flag' flying on its roof could there..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, P.K. said: Which NGO? Would you mind using shorter sentences please. My attention span isn't what it once was. Thanks. Sorry old chip... Again... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/10108098/Muslim-hate-monitor-to-lose-backing.html Failing to mention its sources and how and where such "unprecedented" hate crimes were occurring. Please read all of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Porton Down, just a few miles up the road, gets a large portion of its income from the Pentagon.... Probably nothing in it though. By JUDITH MILLER, MAY 25, 1999 The United States and Uzbekistan have quietly negotiated and are expected to sign a bilateral agreement today to provide American aid in dismantling and decontaminating one of the former Soviet Union's largest chemical weapons testing facilities, according to Defense Department and Uzbek officials. Earlier this year, the Pentagon informed Congress that it intends to spend up to $6 million under its Cooperative Threat Reduction program to demilitarize the so-called Chemical Research Institute, in Nukus, Uzbekistan. Soviet defectors and American officials say the Nukus plant was the major research and testing site for a new class of secret, highly lethal chemical weapons called ''Novichok,'' which in Russian means ''new guy.'' The agreement to help Uzbekistan clean up the plant is part of wide-ranging cooperation between Tashkent and Washington since the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan became independent in 1991. Yesterday, American and Uzbek officials opened a series of meetings in Tashkent, the Uzbek capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, Lxxx said: Porton Down, just a few miles up the road, gets a large portion of its income from the Pentagon.... Probably nothing in it though. By JUDITH MILLER, MAY 25, 1999 The United States and Uzbekistan have quietly negotiated and are expected to sign a bilateral agreement today to provide American aid in dismantling and decontaminating one of the former Soviet Union's largest chemical weapons testing facilities, according to Defense Department and Uzbek officials. Earlier this year, the Pentagon informed Congress that it intends to spend up to $6 million under its Cooperative Threat Reduction program to demilitarize the so-called Chemical Research Institute, in Nukus, Uzbekistan. Soviet defectors and American officials say the Nukus plant was the major research and testing site for a new class of secret, highly lethal chemical weapons called ''Novichok,'' which in Russian means ''new guy.'' The agreement to help Uzbekistan clean up the plant is part of wide-ranging cooperation between Tashkent and Washington since the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan became independent in 1991. Yesterday, American and Uzbek officials opened a series of meetings in Tashkent, the Uzbek capital. Interesting. Questions to be asked about what the role of the US was in demilitarising the Nukus plant, what they did, what materials they handled, if any. And whether Porton Down had any involvement. Decommissioning chemical munitions is definitely part of Porton Down's area of expertise. It occurs to me as well that other ex-Soviet players have a motive for souring further the relationship between Russia and 'the West', not least, Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I would certainly want to see a lot more than just circumstantial evidence of Russian involvement if I was a UK ally, or indeed if I was Theresa or (God help us) Boris. We need to know who contaminated the Skripals, what their movements were and who they were working for. It is not enough just to know that the toxin was of Russian (or more correctly, Soviet) origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, guzzi said: I would certainly want to see a lot more than just circumstantial evidence of Russian involvement if I was a UK ally, or indeed if I was Theresa or (God help us) Boris. We need to know who contaminated the Skripals, what their movements were and who they were working for. It is not enough just to know that the toxin was of Russian (or more correctly, Soviet) origin. We've gone to war on circumstantial evidence in the past. Evidence isn't always sought nor needed for the big boys to have their shoot em up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, Lxxx said: We've gone to war on circumstantial evidence in the past. Evidence isn't always sought nor needed for the big boys to have their shoot em up. Except this "shoot em up" will not end well for us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I wish MI5 were as clued up as you lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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