Cronky Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 If they can do it . . . http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...2/01/wgib01.xml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The new charter, drafted to replace one from 1969, strengthens the powers of Gibraltar's parliament and gives it an independent judiciary, leaving the governor jurisdiction over foreign affairs, internal security and defence. How does that differ from what we already have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 How does that differ from what we already have? I didn't say it did. An election issue was that there is too much imported regulation from the UK and the EU. If the Gibraltarians can take such a big step than the Isle of Man can rightly stand up to excessive external reguation as some MHK's have pledged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Gibraltar is a tidying up exercise. We probably have more self determination than they do, even after this step. but, and there always is a but, for all purposes gibraltar is in the EU. It has to take all EU regulation. If the IOm wants full independence I have no doubt we could acheive it. The price full EU membership, either direct or via the coat tails of another country, like Gibraltar has What would that do for us? Well we adopt al, the EU stuff anyway to have freedom of movement of goods, but we are excuded from the internal market in financial services, unlike Gibraltatr. What doesd that mean? It means we miass out on the largest market for banking, shipping, insurance, aircraft leasing etc etc in the world. A market which our Financial and Sevices sectors could expand into to give enduring growth and stability, but from which we are excuded, unlike malta, Luxembourg, Monaco, Cyprus Dublin, Gibraltar. The Chief Minister debate which ignores our relationship with the EU and UK is a waste of time without discussing that. Steve Rodan woul;d not need to propose putting uo taxes if we expanded our economy 10%. There would be less risk of a crash because of outside pressure if we were inside, rather than out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Gibraltar is a tidying up exercise. We probably have more self determination than they do, even after this step. but, and there always is a but, for all purposes gibraltar is in the EU. It has to take all EU regulation. If the IOm wants full independence I have no doubt we could acheive it. The price full EU membership, either direct or via the coat tails of another country, like Gibraltar has What would that do for us? Well we adopt al, the EU stuff anyway to have freedom of movement of goods, but we are excuded from the internal market in financial services, unlike Gibraltatr. What doesd that mean? It means we miass out on the largest market for banking, shipping, insurance, aircraft leasing etc etc in the world. A market which our Financial and Sevices sectors could expand into to give enduring growth and stability, but from which we are excuded, unlike malta, Luxembourg, Monaco, Cyprus Dublin, Gibraltar. The Chief Minister debate which ignores our relationship with the EU and UK is a waste of time without discussing that. Steve Rodan woul;d not need to propose putting uo taxes if we expanded our economy 10%. There would be less risk of a crash because of outside pressure if we were inside, rather than out Though of course that reply doesn't include all of the advantages, nor the many disadvantages of the island joining the EU. That reply suggests a quick fix for avoiding a tax hike - and fails to identify why the government has got itself in the position that members need to propose a raise in taxation in the first place - and how this could be addressed operating as we do now. EU membership is not a question that can be answered in a few lines, there are many issues, with advantages and disadvantages to consider including: Freedom of movement/impact on culture? Taxation (VAT/Common Purse and general taxation etc.)? Legislation merging with European legislation? Common trade policies? Bullying/pressure from larger countries - as the island impacts some of their own taxation? Administrative procedures (more civil servants?) Complexity in rules/procedures (more admin in companies?) EU programmes, subsidies, guarantees? Differences in trading? More possibilities for products to be exported/Insistance of others to target/take markets here (more competition in the IOM market). Stabilised market? Simplification of import-export procedures? Increase in number of unemployed island citizens? Increase of business activities? Cuts in European financing? Easier access to private financing sources? Possiblity of receiving finance from EU Structural Funds? Participation in European public tenders? Language barrier? TT races (pressure - health and Safety legislation etc. ?) Stricter environmental regulations? etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Absolutely Albert But at the moment no one is even duscussing them Most we have anyway and cannot get out of redaily but we have no say in anything Taking your list Freedom of movement/impact on culture? It cannot be much worse than now Taxation (VAT/Common Purse and general taxation etc.)? Our VAT is EU compliant. So is our tax regime. We would not have to put up taxes Legislation merging with European legislation? It already is Common trade policies? Via the UK we already have this Bullying/pressure from larger countries - as the island impacts some of their own taxation? This happens anyway, and not necessarily from the EU Administrative procedures (more civil servants?) As we implement most of it any way it will be no different Complexity in rules/procedures (more admin in companies?) Not more, just slight differences which we wil import from the EU via UK anyway EU programmes, subsidies, guarantees? Not likely to get subsidies direct. We allegedley match farming subsidies and the fishing policy has direct impact alraedy Differences in trading? We have access to tyhe market, not restricted access More possibilities for products to be exported/Insistance of others to target/take markets here (more competition in the IOM market). That is already there under protocol 3. Freedom of movement of goods and our customs union with the UK Stabilised market? Bigger market for our specialised services. Simplification of import-export procedures? No change Increase in number of unemployed island citizens? Manx allowed to establish and work throughout Europe and work and have equlal social and medical access instead of being discriminated against as now Increase of business activities? Yes Cuts in European financing? We wouldn't qualify any more Easier access to private financing sources? Possiblity of receiving finance from EU Structural Funds? Very unlikely Participation in European public tenders? and vice versa Language barrier? They are all using English, increasingly to the cahgrin of the French, but Manx would becone a protected minority language and would be required to be preserved and promoted and used in government TT races (pressure - health and Safety legislation etc. ?) That is there already. Our H&S is euro driven Stricter environmental regulations? depends on how you interpret and apply I accept there are upsides and down sides. In 1969 when Kilbrandon reported our manufacturing industry was 20+ % of the economy, tourism was 10%, agriculture was nearly 10% (with fish and forests) financial services were small fry and not portable within the EU anyway. So Protocol 3 gave freedom of trade in manufactured and agricultural goods. As the open market in financial services have been developed IOM has been left out. We do at least need to review it We have to do as Europe says because if not they will regulate us out of existence, just like US with On line gaming, they will do it indirectly through thyre banking system, on the pretext of money laundering and anti terrorism. So why not accept that and take what ever advantages we can take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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