Pinochet Dead

[Chinahand]

Funny how you forgot (conveniently?) that Pinochet overthrew the democratically elected government of Allende in 1973, with a military coup. One of his first actions was to promptly ban elections, after he'd set about disposing of any opposition of course.

 

FFS Isn't this explicit enough for you?

South America was a nasty place in the 1970s. Cold war proxies bombed, murdered and tortured their way through their civilian populations. Democracy basically didn't exist.

 

Pinochet was a big part of that. I'm will not defend his human rights record; he presided over deliberate, planned murders and massacres.

I fully admit Pinochet was a murderer and torturer. I say he played a big part in the lack of Democracy in South America and attacked the civillian population. He should be tried for his crimes and face responsibility for them. Is this clear for you.

 

But the idea that he was some absolute evil, with no context to what was occuring in South America and the revolutionry movements that were also armed and taking action against their enemies is simplistic and romantizes the left wing.

 

I think you have a romantic view of Allende's democracy. Social tensions and violence were erupting in Chile; and all over South America. Cuban-armed and trained revolutionary groups were involved in assassinations, murders and bombings. War isn't nice, and this was a dirty war. Pinochet committed war crimes, but he wasn't the only one to do such things and people have a very squewed view of what this war was like.

 

This was an evil man , responsible for over 3000 state sanctioned murders .

I wont loose any sleep over his death .

Friend of rich , capitalist , oppressive regimes .

How can he be compared with castro and che guevara ?

They liberated cuba from batista and his corrupt government .

They freed the people , and whatever you may read or hear the people of cuba surport castro .

I was also pleased to hear that hugo chavez got re elected.

 

Castro's regime is clearly documented as killing over 8,000 people in "state sanctioned murders" and the general death toll from people fleeing his regime etc is in the many tens of thousands: Link

 

In the days after Castro's revolution Wikipedia reports these events:

 

Hundreds of suspected Batista-era agents, policemen and soldiers were put on public trial for human rights abuses and war crimes, including murder and torture. Most of those convicted of murder were executed by firing squad, and the rest received long prison sentences. One of the most notorious examples of “revolutionary justice” being the executions of over 70 captured Batista regime soldiers, directed by Raúl Castro after capturing Santiago. Guevara was appointed supreme prosecutor in La Cabaña Fortress. This was part of a large-scale attempt by Fidel Castro to cleanse the security forces of Batista loyalists that could launch a counter-revolution.

 

How different is this to Pinochet?

 

I've studied the Chinese revolution in some detail and the same techniques were used and addopted by Castro. Absolutely deliberate and wide scale violence is used to destroy the previous social structure and replace it with a communist one.

 

But Castro is a hero and Pinochet is an evil bastard. I find that simplistic crap.

 

They were both evil bastards, but one has left a legacy of economic growth, the other collapse. 25% of Cuba's population live on less than 2 dollars a day; 10% of Chile's [see data from the UN in excel spreadsheet found here].

 

One created the institutions that have enabled a successful democracy to peacefully emerge from his regime. The other has left his 80 year old brother and a police state to enforce his legacy.

 

In the grand scheme of things who has a better legacy? Both are evil men who have killed and murdered, but that is only one part of what they have done. People on here seem to only see Pinochet's evil deeds, and Castro's good ones.

 

Well I aint a member of the Tooting Revolutionary Front and I think it is important to take a rounded view of a both Pinochet's and Castro's actions. Both men were action and reaction to each other, and have responsibility for their actions and legacies.

 

They should both face the courts for their crimes, but I think more positive things have emerged from Pinochet's Chile than Castro's Cuba.

[LurkerBoy]

get in the hole you cunt

 

but how do you really feel?

 

get in the hole you fucking cunt?

 

are you pronouncing that 'fookin' or 'fahkin' ?

 

I bet you wouldn't speak that way to Tony Newley.

 

This bloke etc etc...

[LoneWolf]

In the grand scheme of things who has a better legacy? Both are evil men who have killed and murdered, but that is only one part of what they have done. People on here seem to only see Pinochet's evil deeds, and Castro's good ones.

Pinochet's funeral was as controversial as his life. Funeral.

I suspect Castro will enjoy a simililarly controversial send off.