Bad Start For Eddie And Peter

[Juan Kerr]

In that case you should be fully aware it is a local issue and the Commissioners have been pursuing it for sometime.

 

Yes 10 years to be exact. As Mr Karran clearly illustrated.

 

I don't see what the problem is. Is embarrasing people for self gratification not one of the purposes of being in opposition.

[Pat Ayres]

So, lets look at the replies.

If an issue is outside an MHK's constituency, he/she should not mention anything?

Have we not got a National Government?

By your logic, if a person from Peel was blatently stealing public (our) money and PK found out, he should not say anything?

Grow up FFS. The commissioners for that backwater have been warned 10 years ago to look at the issue, they have done squat inb that time and PK is getting a bit frustrated with the situation as a person with a mandate to look into and oversee national matters. What's the problem, or is there actually something to look at?

[The Thriller]

For a minute there i thought it was about Charles n Eddie.

[sarahc]

Would I lie to you?

[The Thriller]

oh yeah

[LoneWolf]

So, lets look at the replies.

If an issue is outside an MHK's constituency, he/she should not mention anything?

Have we not got a National Government?

By your logic, if a person from Peel was blatently stealing public (our) money and PK found out, he should not say anything?

Grow up FFS. The commissioners for that backwater have been warned 10 years ago to look at the issue, they have done squat inb that time and PK is getting a bit frustrated with the situation as a person with a mandate to look into and oversee national matters. What's the problem, or is there actually something to look at?

 

Lets start with growing up and begin your political education.

Tynwald is currently a legislative assembly. It hasnt always fulfilled this function, despite MNH claims to the contrary, but certainly since the late 18th century, when its function as a legislature was noted by a Royal Commission, it has functioned more or less continuously in that role. However, most people would acknowledge Tynwald had functioned in the same capacity for at least 200 years prior to the Royal Commission. Prior to that it had functioned in a variety of roles including that of a judicial court for a period of some 400 years between the 11th and 15th centuries.

So the main function of Tynwald and its members is to legislate. It isnt a forum for self gratification, as your friend Mr Juan Kerr seems to think, neither is it a venue for the purpose of embarrassing others. Its a legislative assembly. There boundaries to that function, albeit flexible and ill defined boundaries, but they exist.

That brings us nicely to Mr Karran's activities. There is a remarkably long list from which I could draw examples. However, he has presented us with two good examples last week.

Turning first to the questions he tabled about the promenade establishment. By any standard you might care to mention these questions went a lot further than pushing at the boundaries of what is legitimate business for Tynwald. I doubt very much he would care to repeat the questions and accompanying comments outside of Tynwald.

This should answer the first part of your question. However, in case it doesnt, and bearing in mind you also seem confused as to Tynwald's role, if as you suggest, and I would stress your question is hypothetical, Mr Karran had discovered evidence a criminal act had been committed, he would have a clear duty as a citizen, to report the matter to the appropriate authorities. In your hypothetical case that would be the police. If on the other hand he thought existing legislation was allowing unintended or inappropriate use of public money he would need to go to Tynwald, report his opinions, and perhaps suggest the legislation should be amended or new legislation be introduced.

Now do you understand ?

Usurping the responsibilities and functions of local authorities such as Port Erin Commissioners is another good example of the boundaries becoming blurred to say the least. If Mr Karran believes there is a need for a national resource to be established inside the boundaries of Port erin it is of course legitimate and responsible that he should propose legislation is introduced to facilitate his proposal or alternatively existing legislation is amended to the same purpose. If he believes the legislation framing the activities of local authorities isnt working as intended he has a clear duty to explain why and attempt to persuade the government to amend existing legislation so it does work as intended. However, he has no remit and neither should he have any remit to assume for himself, the right to fulfill all positions. He has no business interfering with a local authority which is functioning correctly within the limits of the statutes which describe its responsibilities. To be absolutely fair here Mr Karran isnt the only MHK who has a problem with this particular line of demarcation. For example Douglas Town Council have had to fight off numerous attempts to usurp their authority [from one MHK]. So in answer to your question there is a lot wrong with the way Mr Karran has approached this and he has absolutely no mandate for his actions.

To get back on topic for a moment this has been a very bad start for the new Tynwald. I cant remember any time in my life when Tynwald was thought of so badly or held in such low esteem. Two MHKs, who should both know better, have done little if anything to enhance Tynwald's reputation. On the contrary they have done the opposite and as Chinahand says .. it bodes badly.

[Juan Kerr]

To be absolutely fair here Mr Karran isnt the only MHK who has a problem with this particular line of demarcation. For example Douglas Town Council have had to fight off numerous attempts to usurp their authority [from one MHK].

 

So you are suggesting that local authorities should operate totally unchecked by Tynwald, and that any aspect of the way in which they conduct themselves to deliver projects should not be subject to questions in the house.

 

many people felt the opposite when Braddan Commissioners were brought to task, and a whole public enquiry was set in action.

 

I'm not criticising your stance here, but I think there should be more questions about local authorities in Tynwald because most of them are a total bloody waste of money and don't seem to be accountable to anyone and would benefit from being made accountable to tynwald a hell of a lot more than they are at present.

[John Wright]

And Mr Teare has been promoted, apparently in spite of his alleged indiscretion, to the department with some of the most intractable problems, Ramsey Cottage Hospital, waiting lists, dental service and pensions.

 

Me thinks HMAG WJHC QC protests too much. If someone claims expenses knowing they are not entitled that is a criminal act (I do not refer to anyone, just an exercise in theoretical criminal law). A later offer to pay back may mitigate the sentence on conviction but it does not alter the crime.

 

The same with a building grant me thinks as well.

 

The MEA wanted to see about prosecuting a former member(s) (I do not suggest they are guilty) but apparently the AG's chambers have negotiated an payback deal in return for not prosecuting. The MEA chairman speaks out and the AG sulks.

 

Maybe Mr Brown should be looking at replacing someone else.

[LoneWolf]

To be absolutely fair here Mr Karran isnt the only MHK who has a problem with this particular line of demarcation. For example Douglas Town Council have had to fight off numerous attempts to usurp their authority [from one MHK].

 

So you are suggesting that local authorities should operate totally unchecked by Tynwald, and that any aspect of the way in which they conduct themselves to deliver projects should not be subject to questions in the house.

 

You seemed to think the opposite when Braddan Commissioners were mentioned, and a whole public enquiry was set in action.

 

I'm not criticising your stance, but I think there should be more questions about local authorities in Tynwald because most of them are a total bloddy waste of money and don't seem to be accountable to anyone and should be made accountable to tynwald a hell of a lot more than they are at present.

 

Im not suggesting anything of the sort and had you read my post correctly you would have noted I made the point if Mr Karran believed the statutory framework wasnt working he should return to Tynwald with that.

 

If he believes the legislation framing the activities of local authorities isnt working as intended he has a clear duty to explain why and attempt to persuade the government to amend existing legislation so it does work as intended.

 

What I am suggesting is that Mr Karran has approached this in entirely the wrong manner.

Regarding John Rimington and Braddan Commissioners the matter was handled exactly as it should have been. Not by asking a whole series of pontless questions in Tynwald. Mr Rimington, perhaps because of his previous experience outside the Island, was one of the few MHKs who seemed to appreciate where the boundaries lay between Tynwald and local authorities.

[Steve Gribbon]

And Mr Teare has been promoted, apparently in spite of his alleged indiscretion, to the department with some of the most intractable problems, Ramsey Cottage Hospital, waiting lists, dental service and pensions.

 

Me thinks HMAG WJHC QC protests too much. If someone claims expenses knowing they are not entitled that is a criminal act (I do not refer to anyone, just an exercise in theoretical criminal law). A later offer to pay back may mitigate the sentence on conviction but it does not alter the crime.

 

The same with a building grant me thinks as well.

 

The MEA wanted to see about prosecuting a former member(s) (I do not suggest they are guilty) but apparently the AG's chambers have negotiated an payback deal in return for not prosecuting. The MEA chairman speaks out and the AG sulks.

 

Maybe Mr Brown should be looking at replacing someone else.

 

 

I like that post.

[LoneWolf]

Maybe Mr Brown should be looking at replacing someone else.

 

Have you got ambitions in that direction ?

You are the right age and have the right experience.

[John Wright]

And have to be discrete and stop posting here?

 

No, I'm semi retired and too old (have to do 20 years to get full pension)

 

Awful job. Whitehalls spy in and brake on IOM Government

 

Scene, Comin table: AG, after unanimous votre in Keys, Legco and Tynwald " sorry chaps, can't allow you to do that Lord Falconer won't agree"

 

A very cynical view.... But

 

To be fair I suspect the present incumbent expected a promotion to the bench sooner rather than later but it seems that due to Human Rights considerations, and lack ofa vacancy, its not on. In future AG's will probably be on 5 year, renewable once, fixed posts. Go back to private practice at end.

 

Maybe he will apply for Deputy Deeemster or High Bailiff in nnear future. The former is matrimonial mainly and small civil and a way out

[LoneWolf]

Awful job. Whitehalls spy in and brake on IOM Government

Scene, Comin table: AG, after unanimous votre in Keys, Legco and Tynwald " sorry chaps, can't allow you to do that Lord Falconer won't agree"

A very cynical view.... But

 

A pity really. I can remember a long serving politician mate telling me at a MLP meeting that Mike Kerruish was "like a breath of fresh air " when he first took up the AG post.

Im sure you or someone similar would really blow the cobwebs away.

[hboy]

Awful job. Whitehalls spy in and brake on IOM Government

Scene, Comin table: AG, after unanimous votre in Keys, Legco and Tynwald " sorry chaps, can't allow you to do that Lord Falconer won't agree"

A very cynical view.... But

 

A pity really. I can remember a long serving politician mate telling me at a MLP meeting that Mike Kerruish was "like a breath of fresh air " when he first took up the AG post.

Im sure you or someone similar would really blow the cobwebs away.

 

Mike is first deemster not AG.

[LoneWolf]

Awful job. Whitehalls spy in and brake on IOM Government

Scene, Comin table: AG, after unanimous votre in Keys, Legco and Tynwald " sorry chaps, can't allow you to do that Lord Falconer won't agree"

A very cynical view.... But

 

A pity really. I can remember a long serving politician mate telling me at a MLP meeting that Mike Kerruish was "like a breath of fresh air " when he first took up the AG post.

Im sure you or someone similar would really blow the cobwebs away.

 

Mike is first deemster not AG.

 

He used to be AG