steven ! Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I see from Manx Radio News there have been some dreadful occurrences on the Island lately Three Years Jail For Assault Armed Robbbery At Farmhill - 2 years I look through the papers and it seems to be full of this stuff. I suppose we just have to get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I suppose we just have to get used to it. You could argue that we shouldn't have to. Still, at least they both got jailtime. UK sentencing guidelines seem to be much softer and both offences would have been unlikely to result in a prison term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Nah! The papers just report the same crimes over and over again. First the crime happens, then they go to court but they don't have a trial, then they have a trial, then they wait for reports, then they have the sentencing and the papers report it all along the way. People forget the details so it looks like there's twice as many crimes as there really are. The sky isn't really falling down, Chicken Little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Nah! The papers just report the same crimes over and over again. First the crime happens, then they go to court but they don't have a trial, then they have a trial, then they wait for reports, then they have the sentencing and the papers report it all along the way. People forget the details so it looks like there's twice as many crimes as there really are. The sky isn't really falling down, Chicken Little. Yes that's very true,the papers love to string out a story. Have you also noticed it's the same names too? I wouldn't worry Steven, there will come a point when the same criminals who commit the same crimes will all be together in the same prison at the same time..... bending over for the same soap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quacker Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Same names, spot on. And you're right, Ans, we shouldn't have to get used to it. To be fair, if the papers/radio reported a crime and then decided to skip the court case, there would be an outcry of 'crap journalism' or accusations of covering up to protect X, Y or Z. Likewise if they then decided not to cover the sentencing etc. Also, once a paper/radio starts covering a court case, it has to be seen to be following it through to the end - wherever possible - to ensure that it is reporting both sides of the case. If they elected to dip in and out whenever they pleased (not saying that this doesn't happen on occasion, and not just here...), they would be hauled over the coals for biased/unbalanced reporting... more so than they are already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I was playing pitch & putt at Nobles Park a few years ago and a load of the prisoners started shouting abuse from their cell windows. Apparently this is one of their favourite past times. "Come here and say that" is the standard response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I see from Manx Radio News there have been some dreadful occurrences on the Island lately Three Years Jail For Assault "...coins which he did hand over in the hope they would stop attacking him. However the attack continued, before they leaved the area." At least we have evironmentally friendly robbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I see from Manx Radio News there have been some dreadful occurrences on the Island lately Three Years Jail For Assault "...coins which he did hand over in the hope they would stop attacking him. However the attack continued, before they leaved the area." At least we have evironmentally friendly robbers. Yeah someone has to make sure the evironment isn't hit by all this cimate change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Its not that bad - the year before last there was a murder or double murder every month so you could argue its getting better. While posting about crime - the one thing you love about the IOM is the sentencing. Some bloke today gets 4 months for passing a duff £20, whilst other people seem to get no custodial at all for admiting multiple charges of false accounting. Have we finally entered the twlight zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 'Some bloke' has possibly had some previous taken into account. Same names, as Quacker said earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Is prison a deterrant? I used to think it was but that was before I realised prison isn't actually that bad a place, free meals - cooked by someone else, time to read and study for exams (if you like), no worrys about shopping with 2 yearolds, free clothes, free gym membership and all mod cons and its warm, sounds great! The only down side is that you cannot go out, oh hang on I dont go out that much anyway so that isnt a problem, please may I goto prison? hmmm yeah really liking the sound of prison, anyone know anywhere I can do a heist that would net me about £4mil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Depends on whether you think prison should be for punishment or rehabilitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 When I did my thesis on Manx Crime rates and the use of the birch, nearly 30 years ago, I found that there was little correletion between sentencing and recidivism. People who were birched committed further offences, so did and do those sent to prison. The group who had and still have the lowest recidivism figures were those who were fined. The explanation is that 1. None of us really look to the punishnment ahead in weighing whether or not to break the law. We anticipate not beingh caught. The sentence is not a deterrent if you don't exect to be caught. 2. Most people fined are low grade offenders, first offenders, those not likely to repeat. 3. Those that go to prison are those who have probably already committed several crimes, been caught and punished, they are already receidivists Any way we use prison for such mixed up and contradictory reasons. We use it to contain thse who are a danger to siciety, even though their crime might no longer warrant continued detantion we use it to punish those who are really bad, those on life sentences or very long sentences, for serious offences to show disapprobation. we use it allegedley to reform we use it to house the people there is nowhere else to send, those with addictions and mental problems who are a nuisance in society Wethen mix them all up! Young and old, mad, inadequate and normal Recidivists, the bad and the palne unfortunate and ill educated It cannot possibly work as one thing or the other We send too many to prison for too many small, less serious offences. Many are socilal inadequates who we have no where else to send. We have no real facilities to provide education, rehabilitation etc. Half prisoners are functionall illiterate, that makes it hard to hold down a job, to be honest.. We are building a white elephant prison to cater for 140 plus, which would, if filled be three times the EU average per head of poulation. Why do we need so many bed spaces or are we intending doing TT homestay in Jurby? If we only imprisoned those who need to be incarcerated, for our protection, or to show displeasure at the most serious crimes and came downto the EU average per head the old prison could have been converted by knocking 3 cells into one with each prisoner having a living, sleeping and ensuite facility. Was there any debate? No. Of course to do this you have to build hostels for the homeless and the feeble, you have to have somewhere were addicts, of acohol and drugs can be sent for weekly training sessiions and testing whilst being allowed for the rest of the week to stay at home, working and supporting their families rater than locked up. Finally Crime rates in IOM have risen about 40% since 1976, when my thesis figures based, the population has increased by nearly 30%. The real crime rate per head has only marginally increased and what is more there are thousands of new laws on the staute books. Further we have al sorts of new community based options. Why oh why is our prison population 5 times the average size it was in the 1970's? The only area with a serious increase is the serious assault and homicide category as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 When I did my thesis on Manx Crime rates and the use of the birch, nearly 30 years ago, I found that there was little correletion between sentencing and recidivism. Unfortunately, it is impossible to correlate the number of potential criminals who were deterred by the threat of receiving the birch. It was as a deterrent that, in my opinion, it was most effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 No but there were two claims made by the pro brigade 1. That no one was ever birched twice. Not true there were at least three between 1950 and 1970 2. That any one birched never committed another offence. Untrue, the recidivism rtae was worse than prison. the there was the question of what was the birch used for in the 1950's it was used to punish small boys, 10 to 14 for scrumping, stealing milk bottles and very minor crimes later as the campaign to abolish it grew in strength it was alleged that it would only be used on older young men for crimes of violence. It actually wasn't because by then its use had stoped. So potential law breakers did not know they were likely to be birched for the offence they were about to commit, and as they did not expect to be caught any way, it had no effect. This is shown by the high recidivism rate It was always administered in breach of the 1921 criminal code however which said you cannot hang or corporally punish some one until the time allowed for appealing had expired. In Law you cannot give up your right of appeal, but that did not stop the clerk to the court getting the (mainly unrepresented juvenile) convicted person to sign a waiver of appeal and the sentence was then carried out straight away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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