Lonan3 Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 SUNDAY TIMES ARTICLE Devotees of the Church of Scientology have gained access to thousands of British children through a charity that visits schools to lecture on the dangers of drugs. A Sunday Times investigation has found that Marlborough College is one of more than 500 schools across Britain where the charity has taught. Critics of the charity, Narconon, say it is a front to promote the teaching of Scientology — the controversial “religion” founded by L Ron Hubbard, the science fiction writer. Schools contacted last week said they knew nothing about the charity’s links with Scientology. There is no apparent reference to the church in its drugs education literature. Narconon promotes a number of unorthodox theories and treatments — based on Hubbard’s work — which experts say are not backed by scientific evidence. In California, where Narconon has its international headquarters, the state department of education has advised schools against using the charity. The UK prisons ombudsman has warned governors to ban it from jails because of its Scientology association. Narconon’s international website claims: “The ministry of health in England (sic) has also directly funded Narconon residential rehabilitation.” But the Department of Health denies any knowledge of this. The disclosures come as the Church of Scientology is engaged in a push to win new disciples and gain acceptance in British society. In case anyone thinks that it's just another slightly 'cranky' outfit that attracts a few gullible celebs such as Tom Cruise & John Travolta, I'd recommend having a look at some of the many sites that try to expose its evil nature. THIS ONE, FOR EXAMPLE OR THIS ONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 I note John Gummer, the former cabinet minister and Christian fundamenalist, said: “Scientology is a dangerous organisation. It doesn’t stand up intellectually and scientifically. Er...like Christianity does you mean John? Pfft! Scientology! Thank goodness we came to our senses and worship a 2000 year old dead carpenter and a bible that says the Earth is 6000 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 I think your needle's stuck, Albert. It seems that any mention of any kind of 'religion' simply incites you to attack Christianity. I'm sure that, from the number of threads on which you've posted such views, we're all very well aware of your opinion on the subject. In fact, for the most part, I share it - the only difference being that I am an absolute atheist whereas you claim a degree of agnosticism. That is why I find your reaction to this thread so disappointing. Scientology is not - whatever it claims in order to obtain charitable status - any form of religion whatsoever. It is purely and simply a money making machine that uses mind-altering techniques to prey on the vulnerable and the weak willed. If for no other reason than that it is the living embodiment of the pseudo-science that you claim to despise, I would have expected a more considered and thoughtful response from you. I feel disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I think your needle's stuck, Albert. It seems that any mention of any kind of 'religion' simply incites you to attack Christianity. I'm sure that, from the number of threads on which you've posted such views, we're all very well aware of your opinion on the subject. In fact, for the most part, I share it - the only difference being that I am an absolute atheist whereas you claim a degree of agnosticism. I attack all religions and similar viral organisations with equal vigour, as well as any human activity that encourages the development of dumbocracy. Such organisations and individuals have put the human race at least 5000 years behind where it should be. Since many of the threads on MF are cyclic e.g. smoking, religion, Manx Radio, Steam Packet etc. etc. we all end up repeating our views. However, often it is different individuals reading threads so I will continue to repeat my views in context with the active thread. I am agnostic, because I base my views on evidence and I do not close my mind to new evidence. Atheism is just as much a set of 'closed minds' as is evangelical christianity, even though probability would cause me to lean more toward atheism at present, though a billion miles away from bronze age texts that seem to dictate so many people's lives today. Surely you are only an 'absolute atheist' today because you demonstrate 'faith' that there is no evidence today, when you don't know with 'absolute certainty' what will happen tomorrow? I suspect the universe to be far more complicated and wonderous than people could ever imagine, and IMO, the only way to find meaning in life is through evidence and mathematics. The only 'faith' I have is that we can learn something new and often suprising every day, but since it takes around 30 Billion years to cross the universe (at the speed of light) and we have only ventured 13 light-seconds to the moon so far, new knowledge will only come to us more quickly if we are interested in looking for it and get off our arses to find it, instead of just passing green bits of paper to each other, going to the pub, bombing the sh1t out of each other and smirking about how much our caves our 'worth' today. IMO, the human 'model' of living is deeply flawed - Christian, Atheist, Scientologist, Capatalist, Communist or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Ah, I see. A mathematics fundamentalist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3v0 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I was reading the stories of being imprisoned some of them sounded like something off a horror film! I am making the assumption that they are true of course.. I am fairly claustrophobic, not to the point where it makes me change the way i live but enough that I freak if i'm stuck in a confined space, got stuck in a lift about 2 years ago freaked out and had no control so i proceeded to try and punch and kick my way through the door and didn't stop until we got out...broken knuckles etc, anyway if some brainwashing freak had me confined in a room saying how i couldn't leave and dared be in there with me then one of us wouldn't be leaving in one piece! Grrrrr!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 anyway if some brainwashing freak had me confined in a room saying how i couldn't leave and dared be in there with me then one of us wouldn't be leaving in one piece! Sounds like an office I once worked in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Well if you look at all religions they are all cults in one way or another. The best thing you can teach children is manners and also right & wrong. The only way the world will have peace is when all cults end. I have always said that faith is the most dangerous thing in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have always said that faith is the most dangerous thing in the world. Yeh - especially if you're a short arse and she turns around too quick. Faith Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 IMO, the only way to find meaning in life is through evidence and mathematics. Were that only the case; metaphysics would have died a death centuries ago. Mathematics, however, when applied to physical phenomena, has at best a descriptive power, and only a quantitative one at that. Maths doesn't reveal meaning or make any claim to do so, and to hold the conviction that it does is to treat it as much a faith (and one that's subject to the much the same flaws) as the tenets of any religion. All that mathematics can do in this context (as is indeed true of any empirical evidence) is point out where physical descriptions in existing religious scriptures and beliefs are false, which of course merely serves to invalidate a small portion of those religions which can be, and often are, explained away by those with faith as an inconsistency due to human error or deliberate metaphore. In short, the best that mathematics can say about religion is "I can say nothing about it, other than countering individual assertions regarding physical phenomenon", to use it to say any more (that is to give meaning or significance beyond the physical or the quantifiable) is a misuse or misunderstanding of the disciplines foundations. Bringing Christianity into the equation might be good for a sideways dig at Christians, but it serves little purpose greater than that, failing to confront the specific and very real problems of Scientology and treating the subject as if all religions are equivalent and, to all practical purposes, identical in methods and ends. This is that is closer to reinforcing convenient ignorance or disinterest than any committment to reason and thruth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tameelf Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 what church recently payed over 20 million to abuse victems now theres mathematics and evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Well if you look at all religions they are all cults in one way or another. The best thing you can teach children is manners and also right & wrong. The only way the world will have peace is when all cults end. I have always said that faith is the most dangerous thing in the world. I think it was Richard Dawkins who came up with the word/idea of "Meme" - I try and use that word instead of belief/cult/fashion/trend/religion - some very interesting "Memes about memes out there...." Edited to add:- Wiki - here ya go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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