[BBC News] Group calls for transport forum

[Newsbot]

A political lobby group on the Isle of Man calls for a transport watchdog to be created.

 

Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6260985.stm

[Albert Tatlock]

IMO, if PAG keeps calling for this and that, they will not be heard in the end.

 

The PAG Charter (an extract from their website) says:

OPEN, ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT

RIGOROUS CONTROL OF PUBLIC FINANCES; and

A FAIRER SOCIETY FOR ALL

 

Towards this end we RESOLVE that six steps be taken by November 2011 to implement the ‘core principles’:

 

1. The people to have the right to elect Members of the Legislative Council: - before this is implemented, no MLC may become a Minister.

 

2. The number of Ministries to be reduced.

 

3. The number of Departmental members to be reduced.

 

4. Those members whose position has been lost to be diverted to backbench positions to provide proper scrutiny and to hold government to account.

 

5. An Independent Audit Commission to be set up (as recommended by the Commission of Inquiry into Mount Murray).

 

6. Independent Ombudsman scheme to be set up; and Tynwald to pass:-

 

(a) A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT; and

 

(B) A CONFLICTS OF INTEREST ACT; and

 

© BRING INTO FORCE THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT 2001

 

People need to stick to the knitting if they want to achieve anything. What the hell has the formation of a transport group got to do with these aims?

[mojomonkey]

It's Jessopp and his cronies doing their usual trick of moaning about everything and strangely expecting the addition of more layers of government to make things simpler. Why they think the public are interested in a few self-serving people trying to force their ideas onto them I don’t know.

[ponderer]

What are the details of the proposal? The devil is often in the detail - and so is a sense of whether its a serious proposal or just posturing.

 

Some interesting things to read from the UK:

 

http://www.railpassengers.org.uk/about-us/

 

http://www.transport2000.org.uk/news/maint...wsArticleID=192

 

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/about.php

 

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/article/2005/...airlineindustry

 

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=306

[Cholmondley-Warner]

What the hell is it with Peter Karran, select committees for this, select committees for that. Do MHK's get paid extra for sitting on a select committee? at this rate we will be spending more on them than on things the taxpayer actually gets a return on e.g. the Health Service.

 

Oh and by the way while we're on the subject, what about a select committee to look into the alleged civil service pension blackhole that will be left to us, the taxpayer, to bail out. Shouldn't they literally put their own house in order first? If any watchdogs are required it's to watch what the Keys are doing - a tourist grant watchdog might be an idea for the future.

 

As for the committee PK asked to be set up to look into the IOM Football Association going on its own instead of being affiliated to the English FA, no one in the sport wants it, the benefits the IOM get from the English FA are substantial and the relationship works, no one wants to let Government stick their butty in and bugger it up, so why is he wasting everyones time with yet another hair brained idea.

 

I used to have a lot of respect for Peter Karran but I think he's losing the plot lately.

[Billy One Mate]

What the hell is it with Peter Karran, select committees for this, select committees for that. Do MHK's get paid extra for sitting on a select committee? at this rate we will be spending more on them than on things the taxpayer actually gets a return on e.g. the Health Service.

 

Oh and by the way while we're on the subject, what about a select committee to look into the alleged civil service pension blackhole that will be left to us, the taxpayer, to bail out. Shouldn't they literally put their own house in order first? If any watchdogs are required it's to watch what the Keys are doing - a tourist grant watchdog might be an idea for the future.

 

As for the committee PK asked to be set up to look into the IOM Football Association going on its own instead of being affiliated to the English FA, no one in the sport wants it, the benefits the IOM get from the English FA are substantial and the relationship works, no one wants to let Government stick their butty in and bugger it up, so why is he wasting everyones time with yet another hair brained idea.

 

I used to have a lot of respect for Peter Karran but I think he's losing the plot lately.

 

I felt I should reply to Cholmondly - Warner although it is off thread.

 

I did a private study on the question of the IOMFA being a football association in its own right about seven years ago and I am afraid the figures did stack up. At that time the IOMFA was recieving about 60K per year from the English FA which mainly just went to cover the Secretarys wages and general admin.I understand that this has gone up and also various clubs have recieved grants for new clubhouses and pitch impovements. However the IOM being a stand alone association would entitle it to enter the world cup, european championships at all respective ages and for league clubs to enter prequalification for the likes of UEFA and the champions league (assuming that we are seen as part of Europe)

 

In both the world cup and european championships which both are held every four years with qualification over two years the IOM would be drawn against seeded teams such as Germany, Holland, France, Italy, England etc and all of these games would lead to television rights. The information I recieved on this was at that time approx £170,000 per home game and a percntage for away games. There is also general benefits to the Island, travelling supporters, free publicity etc (After all who had heard of the faroe Islands before they appeared on the footall scene). Other sources of revenue were advertising and sponsorship.

 

Yes their are also costs, upgrading NSC to a suitable football stadium cost £4 milion, travel for the team etc. Anyway putting all these figures into the equation it did result in net income after expenditure to the new IOMFA of about £180,000, three times what they were getting at that time from the English FA.

 

I did at the time pass the information to the IOM Government and recieved a reply that it had been sent to the IOMFA and that was the END OF IT.

 

Im afraid Peter may be too late now as my understanding is that FIFA have realised that many small countries are trying to set up stand alone FAs as they see it as extremely lucrative and as such are proposing to put a stop to the same, if it hasnt happened already

[Albert Tatlock]

...over two years the IOM would be drawn against seeded teams such as Germany, Holland, France, Italy, England etc and all of these games would lead to television rights. The information I recieved on this was at that time approx £170,000 per home game...

Let's do it! That's very nearly £800 for every goal they'd each likely score against us.

[ponderer]

...over two years the IOM would be drawn against seeded teams such as Germany, Holland, France, Italy, England etc and all of these games would lead to television rights. The information I recieved on this was at that time approx £170,000 per home game...

Let's do it! That's very nearly £800 for every goal they'd each likely score against us.

 

Could the island's gaming activities also benefit in some way from international online betting on the isle of man losing by at least 10 goals against germany perhaps?!! (Rhetorical question)

 

...anyway, is there any chance of this thread getting back, at some point, to the issue of a transport watchdog for the isle of man which Newsbot has so faithfully put before us!?

[Juan Kerr]

The last thing the Island needs is any more forums, focus groups, steering committies, we must have more waste of time groups making decisions on nothing than anywhere else in the British Isles.

 

The chap on the Radio this morning was great "If I arrive at the airport and its raining, I have to go out into the rain to read the bus timetable. If this group existed we could advise the operators to put the timetable indoors to assist travelers".

 

Why don't you just write a friggin letter. Much easier. A badly placed sign is hardly the end of the world. Most other people couldn't give a toss. These people are just making jobs for themselves and using these groups to get political points across as they don't have real political jobs but love the sound of their own voices.

[Albert Tatlock]

There are 60 months in 5 years (election to election) and two months have gone already - which leaves 58 months.

 

In order for people to stand for the next election (with any credible record of lobbying/achieving a change), this means that any significant changes have to really happen in the fourth year of Tynwald, which actually knocks off another 12 months - so in reality there are 46 months left, followed by 6 to 8 months of campaigning for 2011.

 

46 months sounds a long time, but it isn't considering the groundwork, lobbying, publishing of papers, arguing, debate, press coverage, meetings etc. that are going to have to be done to facilitate just one of the major changes PAG mention in their 'Charter'. Not all of the changes can possibly happen at once and are each going to take an enormous amount of effort and resources to achieve.

 

Current progress suggests nothing is going to happen this year, other than the possibility of passengers not having to stand in the rain at the airport.

 

Methinks PAG are having a larf. If I was the PAG project manager - there would be a few sackings this week.

[Charles Flynn]

I attended this evening’s meeting arranged by the PAG. The aim was to initiate setting up a Manx Passengers’ Watchdog. Brendan O’Friel, outgoing Chairman of the North West Public Transport Users Forum addressed the meeting and answered questions. He is an ex- Prison Governor and thought his theme may be “from jail to rail!”

 

He posed the question why do we need a passenger watchdog?

His answer revolved around the various problems that passengers often experience - lack of appropriate information to passengers, no early buses to the airport or sea terminus, difficulty for Manx people in knowing the arrangements for onward travel say at Liverpool etc.

 

He advocated the formation of a Travel Watch Forum - the Manx Passenger Watchdog with presumably himself as the main driving force. He said:

 

1. This would have at least one public meeting per year.

2. The website of the PAG and this new body would be interlinked - perhaps part of the same.

3 .The Forum would concentrate on getting the best deal for passengers in terms of safety, reliability, affordability. The operators of bus, taxis, coach, air, sea, and train operators etc would be asked if they have done surveys to help passengers.

4. There would be regular meetings between this group and the operators particularly on vital services such as sea and air links which are not as good as they should be currently with airlines pulling out of routes, cancelling services etc.

5. There should be regular surveys on passenger complaints and how particular matters have been handled.

6. The Forum should build up links with other Travel Watchdogs in the U.K. The 80, 00 people on this island travel regularly and so we could exert a lot of influence on UK thinking.

7. Mr O’Friel thought much more information must be given to passengers when matters go wrong - e.g. why are passengers left stranded at airports with little chance of compensation when flights are cancelled?

 

Action:

 

Mr O’Friel asked for 5 - 10 people to be actively involved in the formation of TravelWatch I.O, .M. Information on this is available at www.postiveactiongroup.org

 

In addition, he wanted a wider support group to do surveys etc.

 

It was emphasised by Leonard Singer who was in the audience that the group should not be a group of whingers but people who are positive and are willingly to interact positively with government and the operators.

 

Resources for the Group.

 

These would come from the operators - providing facilities for meetings etc. supporters and possibly Government. A similar group has been set up in Jersey called the Jersey Air Passenger Association.

 

Questions from the floor.

 

These were wide ranging. The various points raised include:

The almost monopolistic control of taxi services was queried, as was the quality of people driving taxis, which could put passenger safety at risk according to the questioner. I am just reporting!

The scope of the group - initially it would concentrate on matters, which could be dealt with quickly such as information, but later on strategy planning issues could be tackled. There would be co-operation with other groups on the island and elsewhere .e.g. environmental, planning, hospital user groups

Taxi buses could be a more creative way for transport particularly in rural areas.

The question of regulations came up such as in the Steam Packet User Agreement.

The Manx Watchdog must be independent and not linked to government.

A sizeable part of the population has no car - so how do we deal with their quality of life?

Availability of special offers, discounts etc to Manx passengers travelling in the UK.

Route licensing as regards airlines.

Difficulty of getting information from the Tourism and Leisure Dept.of Government

School buses.

Why couldn’t the Sea Terminal be used for the buses?

Air Transport Users Council to resolve difficulties for passengers.

 

My impression was that this was a valuable and worthwhile initiative which if progressed could help passengers greatly. I would not criticise the voluntary service and the volunteers in doing this and I for one wish them well.

[ponderer]

Thanks Charles. That's really useful. Sounds like its one of PAGs more useful initiatives.

 

Did many people turn up or was it the 'usual suspects'?

 

The following shows where Travelwatch North West gets its financial support:

 

TravelWatch acknowledges the generous support given by the following bodies: NorthWest Regional Development Agency, Greater Manchester PTE, Merseytravel, Manchester Airport plc, TransPennine Express, Virgin West Coast, Virgin CrossCountry, and Stagecoach (North West).

http://users.cooptel.net/ianwatson/nwptuf/index.htm

 

How about Manx funding support?

[Charles Flynn]

Thanks Charles. That's really useful. Sounds like its one of PAGs more useful initiatives.

 

Did many people turn up or was it the 'usual suspects'?

 

The following shows where Travelwatch North West gets its financial support:

 

TravelWatch acknowledges the generous support given by the following bodies: NorthWest Regional Development Agency, Greater Manchester PTE, Merseytravel, Manchester Airport plc, TransPennine Express, Virgin West Coast, Virgin CrossCountry, and Stagecoach (North West).

http://users.cooptel.net/ianwatson/nwptuf/index.htm

 

How about Manx funding support?

 

 

It was comfortably full. I didn't really make any attempt to count but possibly 70 attended including Quintin Gill MHK and ex MLC Leonard Singer. The usual crowd was certainly there but also others with a specific interest in transport. About 30 people are willing to help is getting it going.

 

I would expect funding won't be a major problem if this group can demonstrate they are adding to the quality of life for Manx passengers. I have high hopes they will.

[Albert Tatlock]

My impression was that this was a valuable and worthwhile initiative which if progressed could help passengers greatly. I would not criticise the voluntary service and the volunteers in doing this and I for one wish them well.

I still think they are going out of charter 'scope' here. 'Jail to Rail' - just what we need another sound byte 'expert' !!!

 

I'm only angry because I had hopes they might get somewhere, and the first major press outings would heavily emphasise the iminent LegCo elections due at the end of the month - not taxis IMO. Press coverage now would maybe gain heavy public 'thinking time' on LegCo now it's at the fore. It's difficult for some MHKs to get press coverage - PAG aren't going to get a free rein and should be prioritising.

[Charles Flynn]

Albert,

 

PAG committee members will be reading this thread and perhaps they will take up your idea. Let's hope so.