Onchan Commissioners Election Jan 18th

[Charles Flynn]

Good points you make. I believe there is a Government Dept. which deals with electoral practices and possibly improvements in legislation. It may be worthwhile informing them how matters could be made more democratic in the IOM apart that is from the glaring example of being able to sit down to dinner with the right person(s) and then you are automatically qualified to become an MLC!!..

 

The other point which I would like to make imho one should stand for the local authority first before putting one's name forward for Tynwald elections. Trying to get into the Keys, failing and then standing for the Local Authoirity suggests to some people that you really haven't thought it through. This is bound to be an electoral disadvantage if you try again as there will nearly always be one other who pips you to the post.

[copycat]

and how many people were entitled to vote in Ochan? and what % of teh electorate voted for the giy? eh?

[www.theislandinsider.co.uk]

Disagree Charles

 

By standing for the By-Election it showed I hadn't just done the general election on a whim and was actually serious about getting into politics. I think it would have done harm had I not stood.

 

I will be standing for future elections as I have taken a lot of positives from the last two despite not getting in.

 

Taking what I have learned in the last 9 months my next challenge is the May 2008 Local Elections, and I will put into motion my ideas to keep in the public eye between now and then, on Monday.

 

All thats left to say is thanks to all who voted for me and those who have been supportive both for this election and for the General Election.

[Charles Flynn]

Andrew I wish you well and success in the future. I am just pointing out something which will concern a % of the electorate and which I am sure you can explain if asked in future.

 

You may of course be fighting for years to get in - almost like waiting in dead mens shoes but I actually believe at some stage you and Steve will be elected. Perseverance does count - look at David Quirk MHK.

[Ushtey]

Well done everybody.

I am interested to note that two of you paid people to deliver leaflets and manifestos, what's wrong with getting out and delivering them yourselves?

 

Just to put the record straight, I was out delivering them myself, and Andrew's as well. I paid the Young Enterprise group to help me deliver them because they needed to raise some cash, Andrew was good enough to offer them cash for helping delivering his as well. I'd say this compares quite well to paying Isle of Man Newspapers to deliver manifestos or the Post Office.

 

Credit where it's due, at the Gen Election Andrew was the only candidate I am aware of to hand deliver all his manifestos, that's not just in Onchan, it's in the Island as a whole.

 

 

Charles, I am sorry but you will never persuade me the necessity of being a local commissioner before being an MHK. In my experience the roles are similar in name only compared to experience gained in other areas, such as business or charitable works. Is Geoff Corkish a less capable candidate because he didn't have years behind him as a Douglas councillor? Yet he topped the polls in his district, most likely because of his public involvement with so many charities. I am sure he wouldn't have received the New Year Honour for spending years as a Douglas Councillor. Some of our best politicians down the years have not been local commissioners before getting elected, and those who have generally have been because they were drawn to politics and that was an easier step to start with. It smacks too much of positive discrimination to me, there is nothing anyone could say to persuade me that we should limit the number and range of candidates in a general election. We desperately need the opposite, more candidates.

 

With all due respect to the commissioners, they deal with smaller, local issues. Perhaps they work is more important to all of us in day to day terms. But that gives little or no experience in dealing with national issues. David Quirk has been given responsibility for Iris at DOT, where did he get the experience to manage that at Onchan Commissioners that he couldn't have gotten elsewhere?

 

You refer to David Quirk's perseverance, yet in the last five years he has made an effort to be active in Onchan AFC, the local pensioners club and Onchan band. innumerable have told me that that is the best method of getting elected, rather than the commissioners route. Even on Thursday those connection were in open evidence, and their effectiveness. Yet can we really blame people for voting for a candidate they know or have had association with, instead of someone they don't know personally or have met only once on a doorstep, even if they do think that person raises some valid points.

 

For me, the positives of the past few months are meeting people around the village who care deeply about the issues raised. Hopefully some of those will decide to stand either next April in the local elections or in a few years at the General Election. More importantly, those people will carry on doing the invaluable work they do behind the scenes in helping the local community. They are the really important "politicians", the ones who run cub scout groups, arrange carol services, give lifts to elderly neighbours and generally do what's needed to help, without thanks or favour. More strength to their arm.

[John Wright]

With all due respect to the commissioners, they deal with smaller, local issues. Perhaps they work is more important to all of us in day to day terms. But that gives little or no experience in dealing with national issues. David Quirk has been given responsibility for Iris at DOT, where did he get the experience to manage that at Onchan Commissioners that he couldn't have gotten elsewhere?

 

I suspect that is the real resaon we wil not make any progress, even if you are elected.

 

It isn't the job of an MHK to manage a department or stautory board. That is the job of the chief executive and his employed managerial team.

 

The job of the political head is just that, to be political head, to represent at the cabinet table, to set policy and to ensure the delivery of the policy.

 

Until we get meaningful local government with appropriate local powers so that the electorate can chase them about local issues we will keep on getting MHK's who do see their role as that of trouble shooter and mister fix it running around trying to manage departments or actually subverting them from within by destroying lines of command, policy etc, just to satisfy a constituent.

 

No wonder government departments are sometimes in a mess.

 

I hope Dave is not managing Iris, and that you never think you will be allowed to either, except as a professional employee with the right qualifications for the job.

[Charles Flynn]

Steve, I agree totally with John on this. Too many MHK's think once they are elected they are automatically qualified to get into the nitty gritty roles of management which should be left to those with the appropriate professional expertise.

 

Of course there are many routes to be a politician but first of all you have to get elected. If you are known as a good Commissioner, worthy of the public's trust with experience of handling people issues within the government machinery surely you have a good chance of getting elected. Other work such as charity, professional, managerial, doing good deeds such as Geoff Corkish has done also will make you popular and electable. However it doesn't necessarily make you a good politician as Geoff himself would readily admit. He is a novice in the political world, still to prove himself. I am sure knowing Geoff very well that he will.

 

The public make their minds up in a variety of ways. Even being a local authority member can disqualify you from being elected as an MHK in some of their minds. They have a different perception of what being an MHK is and what is necessary as a local authority member - something which you are well of.

 

It takes years for some to be elected, others walk in. How unfair it all is!

 

However I hope that anyone who is calculating that by doing charity work they will be paid eventually as a politician does not succeed. This is completely the wrong motive.

[Ushtey]

I suggest you both read my post again then. I said that DQ has been given responsibility for IRIS. Speaking as a Civil Servant I know only too well where the role of managing and taking political responsibility lies. I meant "manage that" as in achieve that not act as direct manager. However, senior politicians are involved in the policy making at department levels, for good or bad.

 

Without wanting to appear to simply be springing the defence of MHKs I would suggest that the reason MHK's feel they have to get involved is because they are all too often assumed to have that direct responsibility by the public and are the ones held accountable by the voting public for the performance of their departments. If senior Civil Servants were seen to be held as responsible for their actions, then perhaps MHKs would be able to relax their involvement somewhat.

 

At the hustings I made the same point you did here John. That the civil service needs to be left to run matters on a day to day basis, whilst politicians should concentrate on longer term policy making. However I do feel politicians are better equipped to debate and decide that policy if they can draw on relevant personal experience.

 

With regard to managing and professional qualifications, my CV is fairly well known and the argument of encouraging candidates with real practical business experience over those with simply political experience is one I have been supporting for a long time and one of the reasons I chose to stand in November. My decision to stand this week for the Commissioners wasn't as part of a plan to get elected as an MHK, five years is a very long time and I have no idea what my situation will be at that time, it was to support the local community, despite what others may suspect or even suggest.

 

I agree entirely that local politics and national politics need to be clearly separated, however I suspect that will never really happen on the Island, nor is that necessarily a bad thing. I enjoy the accessibility we have to our politicians and I equally enjoy knowing that national politicians remain involved in their local communities. It is inevitable that there will be a reform of local government, how far that will go remains to be seen. Plans are underway in Onchan though to reduce the number of commissioners and for them to represent the whole of the village, removing the urban and rural split. If those plans see fruition is another moot point for now, but it is at least a good platform for debate.

[Charles Flynn]

Steve, I would vote for you. The only problem is that not enough others will at present. But it will happen and with your commitment you will do well for the people. Few give up their job to stand for Parliament. To my mind that was enough to show you were really serious.

 

Now if you can manage to see your way to give me a pint sometime I will be eternally grateful. I hope this is allowed within the rules of political engagement.

[Theodolite]

I am sure Steve will put me right if I am wrong, but he didn't really give up his job as such. It was waiting for him the Monday after the election. It's not as if it was re-advertised or anything like that. No one would be stupid enough to 'give up' their job with a baby on the way for the sake of the election.

[Charles Flynn]

Well I wouldn't call Steve stupid but he certainly wasn't sure what was going to happen. He told me a month or so back that his present job is temporary but no doubt it can change to permanent for good behaviour.

 

There are many who take real risks to stand for Parliament. Steve is one of them but I think it was tempered with the knowledge that another position would be available if required.

[Theodolite]

Exactly Charles, exactly. Steve is not stupid.

 

 

There are many who take real risks to stand for Parliament. Steve is one of them but I think it was tempered with the knowledge that another the very same position would be available if required.

 

At the hustings, Steve said he had given up his job for the election and he had a baby on the way.......

 

Did Steve give the required notice?

Did Steve do a handover to the new employee?

Did he clear his desk?

 

etc.

 

The answer is largely no. Perhaps Steve should have left this point out of his campaign altogether and perhaps it doesn't help having someone pushing the point for him on an internet forum, Charles.

 

I would like to point out that I thought Steve spoke very well and I am sure would make a good politician. Best of luck next time m8.

[Charles Flynn]

If Steve is willing to discuss issues on a Forum which he is, I am sure he doesn't mind it being mentioned, that he had to some extent put his civil service career on hold when standing for the "Keys". If I thought for one moment Theo he did, I would have left it alone. He told me his status had changed since the election. I do not know anything else about it - it seems you do. He is very open and I hope he remains so. Most politicians only tell you a little about themselves - just the good bits. Steve and Andrew have gone beyond this simply by contributing to this Forum.

 

A good politician has to get elected. I believe Steve will.

[Ushtey]

Exactly Charles, exactly. Steve is not stupid.

There are those who would disagree

 

 

There are many who take real risks to stand for Parliament. Steve is one of them but I think it was tempered with the knowledge that another the very same position would be available if required.

There are no guarantees in life. I readily admit that I hoped I could persuade my previous employers to offer me a role if I was unsuccessful but it was not certain by any means.

At the hustings, Steve said he had given up his job for the election and he had a baby on the way.......

 

Did Steve give the required notice?

Yes, it was required that I handed my notice in 17 weeks before the election. That was put in writing and accepted. Can every candidate who worked for the Civil Service say the same? Were they similarly asked to?

Did Steve do a handover to the new employee?

Yes. I completed a full handover to another person prior to leaving. Further, a long term replacement had been identified and their availability confirmed.

Did he clear his desk?

Yes. Of personal effects.

 

To be clear on this, I left the employment of the Water Authority one week before the election and prior to that had used up my remaining leave entitlement. My payslips for that period reflected this.

 

The answer is largely no.

Please see above, but you are wrong, the answer is yes.

 

Perhaps Steve should have left this point out of his campaign altogether and perhaps it doesn't help having someone pushing the point for him on an internet forum,

Charles.

Why? It was the truth. My wife and I are expecting a new baby any day now. I have been fortunate in that I was reinterviewed and offered a temporary post that takes me to the end of this year. I understand the decision was made that given my unique experience in the project it was felt in the Island's best interests that I continue to see out the project. It's never good practice to lose a project manager 2/3's of the way through a project if it can be avoided.

 

I would like to point out that I thought Steve spoke very well and I am sure would make a good politician. Best of luck next time m8.

Thanks, I really do appreciate that.

[Theodolite]

Thanks for clearing that up, I think it was necessary and not just for my sake.