Newsbot Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Residents on the Isle of Man are given more time to air their views on changes to electoral areas. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6305979.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Residents on the Isle of Man are given more time to air their views on changes to electoral areas. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6305979.stm Good.It wasn't really a great idea to have a 'public consultation' over the Xmas period. Maybe this time they will explain to the public where the existing boundaries are and what changes they are proposing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 the existing boundaries are publicly available, there are maps and legislation and this is a first consultation exercise to take views. Once all views are in draft proposals will be made and then there will be a consultation on the drfat propsals. There was an interim report last year here http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/cso/reportplusappendicesatog.pdf its reccoimendations which were only temporary were not adopted as to the boundary changes but the problems identified and the proposals for terms of reference and certain criteria were accepted by Tynwald. So this is the next step of the process. The choice is, remembering its House of Keys only, not Legislative Councilaa nd whether or how it should be elected and certainly not about voting method: Stay as is mix of one two or three seat constituencies with adjustments to take account of population increases and movements since the last review nearly 30 yeras ago or seize bull by horns and have one voter same number of votes and same number of representatives that means 24 single seats or 12 two seater or 8 three seater or 6 four seater or 4 six seater or 3 eight seater or 2 twelve seater or one all Island 24 seater constituencies. The boundary Committee are really interested in your views. Either submit to Government Office or post here andI will print off and bring to the discussion. However remember that the views of those who submit openly admitting authorship and identity are likely to amount for more than anonymous postings The interim report reviews what is wrong with the existing boundaries, ie where existing constiutuencies have too few or too many electors per MHK. The committee is doing its current work by reference to both the electoral registers and the mini census, given the huge discrepancy between the numbers. To understand why we are where we are today you have to undestand the history. Elections and constituencies only came into being in 1866. They followed tradition by being based on sheadings, 6 each with three seats and one seat for Peel, one for Ramsey , one for Castletown and three for Douglas. Over the yeras and with reviews and boundary extensions The original Sheading boundaries are gone in many places. We now have Rushen (2/3rds of Rushen sheading without Malew) 3 seats Castletown 1 seat Malew and Santon ( one parish from Rushen sheading and one from Middle)Sheading 1 seat Middle (Braddan parish from Middle sheading and Marown from Glenfaba Sheading) 1 seat Onchan ( a single parish from Middle sheading) 3 seats Douglas East, North, South and West each with two seats Garff (Maughold and Lonan parishes, Garff historically, was the only sheading to have 2 parishes not three) 1 seat Ramsey 2 seats Ayre (parishes of Bride, and Andreas, Lezayre) 1 seat Michael (parishes of Michael Ballaugh and Jurby) 1 seat Glenfaba (parishes of German and Patrick but without Marown) 1 seat Peel 1 seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 the existing boundaries are publicly available, there are maps and legislation and this is a first consultation exercise to take views. Once all views are in draft proposals will be made and then there will be a consultation on the drfat propsals. There was an interim report last year here http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/cso/reportplusappendicesatog.pdf its reccoimendations which were only temporary were not adopted as to the boundary changes but the problems identified and the proposals for terms of reference and certain criteria were accepted by Tynwald. So this is the next step of the process. The choice is, remembering its House of Keys only, not Legislative Councilaa nd whether or how it should be elected and certainly not about voting method: Stay as is mix of one two or three seat constituencies with adjustments to take account of population increases and movements since the last review nearly 30 yeras ago or seize bull by horns and have one voter same number of votes and same number of representatives that means 24 single seats or 12 two seater or 8 three seater or 6 four seater or 4 six seater or 3 eight seater or 2 twelve seater or one all Island 24 seater constituencies. The boundary Committee are really interested in your views. Either submit to Government Office or post here andI will print off and bring to the discussion. However remember that the views of those who submit openly admitting authorship and identity are likely to amount for more than anonymous postings The interim report reviews what is wrong with the existing boundaries, ie where existing constiutuencies have too few or too many electors per MHK. The committee is doing its current work by reference to both the electoral registers and the mini census, given the huge discrepancy between the numbers. To understand why we are where we are today you have to undestand the history. Elections and constituencies only came into being in 1866. They followed tradition by being based on sheadings, 6 each with three seats and one seat for Peel, one for Ramsey , one for Castletown and three for Douglas. Over the yeras and with reviews and boundary extensions The original Sheading boundaries are gone in many places. We now have Rushen (2/3rds of Rushen sheading without Malew) 3 seats Castletown 1 seat Malew and Santon ( one parish from Rushen sheading and one from Middle)Sheading 1 seat Middle (Braddan parish from Middle sheading and Marown from Glenfaba Sheading) 1 seat Onchan ( a single parish from Middle sheading) 3 seats Douglas East, North, South and West each with two seats Garff (Maughold and Lonan parishes, Garff historically, was the only sheading to have 2 parishes not three) 1 seat Ramsey 2 seats Ayre (parishes of Bride, and Andreas, Lezayre) 1 seat Michael (parishes of Michael Ballaugh and Jurby) 1 seat Glenfaba (parishes of German and Patrick but without Marown) 1 seat Peel 1 seat Can you please tell us where the existing boundaries are publicly available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doric Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 There is a far more simple alternative and that is to do away with the lot and become a cosntituency of the UK Parliament with a single MP. You think that is crazy.............? Forget the emotive knee jerk and think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 The existing boundaries are the parish and town boundaries, except in douglas I will see if I can find a list but its principles the committee is looking at List. I cannot find a link. Schedule 1 to Representation of the People Act 1995 Name Area Ramsey The town district of Ramsey and the area specified in article 2 of the Ramsey (Boundary Extension) Order 1992. Ayre The parish districts of Andreas, Bride and Lezayre, except the area specified in article 2 of the Ramsey (Boundary Extension) Order 1992. Michael The village district of Michael and the parish districts of Michael, Ballaugh and Jurby. Peel The town district of Peel. Glenfaba The parish districts of Patrick and German. Garff The village district of Laxey and the parish districts of Maughold and Lonan. Middle The parish districts of Braddan and Marown. Onchan The village district of Onchan and the parish district of Onchan. Douglas North That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of Glencrutchery and St. Ninian's. Douglas South That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of St. George's (except the part within the constituency of Douglas East), Quay and Pulrose. Douglas East That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of Tynwald, Crescent, Strand, Windsor and Derby, that part of the polling district of St. George's lying to the north-east of a line along the middle of Upper Church Street and that part of the polling district of Murrays lying to the east of a line along the middle of Woodbourne Road. Douglas West That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of Garden City, Murrays (except the part within the constituency of Douglas East), Albany, Ballabrooie and Eastfield. Castletown The town district of Castletown. Malew and Santon The parish districts of Malew and Santon. Rushen The village districts of Port Erin and Port St. Mary and the parish districts of Rushen and Arbory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 There is a far more simple alternative and that is to do away with the lot and become a cosntituency of the UK Parliament with a single MP. You think that is crazy.............? Forget the emotive knee jerk and think about it. My knee jerk reaction was 'what a crazy idea!' Then I thought about it for a while and my opinion began to change, slightly, until I decided that it was a totally moronic idea. Then I looked up 'moron' and found that it meant a a stupid person with a mental age of between seven to twelve years - whereas 'idiotic' meant a stupid person with a mental age below three years, so I decided that it was idioitic. I'm sure it would be applauded by many English people who have a government that is (incredibly!) even less democratic and even less able than ours. Then, of course, I cursed my own stupidity for even giving time to such ridiculous thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 There is a far more simple alternative and that is to do away with the lot and become a cosntituency of the UK Parliament with a single MP. You think that is crazy.............? Forget the emotive knee jerk and think about it. That's about as funny as a bad joke cracked by a drunk in an empty pub at closing time. The net result would be: * The Prison would immediatley fill up. * The police would run inside to watch us all on CCTV. * No one would be arrested as they would be too busy filling in forms. * Taxes would rise exorbitantly. * Dandara would be allowed to build houses any damned place they wanted to. * There would be a blizzard of EU regulations to contend with. * 3000 plus laws passed by New Labour would become law in the Isle of Man. * A load of new people would rush over here to sit around on benefit and have large families. * Schools would fill up faster than Dandara can build new ones. * Congestion charging in Douglas. * The TT would be banned. * Children would have to wear crash helmets just to ride a trike down the road. * Old people would starve to death in hospital to ease waiting lists. * The towns would fill up with chain shops. * We would all have to go down to Douglas to be fingerprinted and have our Iris's scanned for ID cards. * All our data would be entered on the National Identity Register. * All medical records would be entered on the UK NHS computer with loss of privacy. * The Island would be re branded - any suggestions? * Anybody being the slightest bit politically inncorrect would be interviewed by the council * The banking industry would closed down with consequent loss of jobs. * There would be an all Island speed limit - probably 30 mph. * The Americans would be able to extradite us for crimes commited in the Isle of Man. * Legal things would become illegal and illegal things would become legal and so on. * Your MP would live in Scotland. * Your MP would just tell you that all problems are the responsibility of Agencies. * Agencies would just tell you they are carrying out Government policy. * The Government would just tell you that they do what ever the Prime Minister's office wants. * The Prime Ministers Office would just do what the focus groups dream up. * The focus groups would just do what Tony Blair tells them too. * Tony Blair would, in effect, be telling you what to do and no one would smile ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 The existing boundaries are the parish and town boundaries, except in douglas I will see if I can find a list but its principles the committee is looking at List. I cannot find a link. Schedule 1 to Representation of the People Act 1995 Name Area Ramsey The town district of Ramsey and the area specified in article 2 of the Ramsey (Boundary Extension) Order 1992. Ayre The parish districts of Andreas, Bride and Lezayre, except the area specified in article 2 of the Ramsey (Boundary Extension) Order 1992. Michael The village district of Michael and the parish districts of Michael, Ballaugh and Jurby. Peel The town district of Peel. Glenfaba The parish districts of Patrick and German. Garff The village district of Laxey and the parish districts of Maughold and Lonan. Middle The parish districts of Braddan and Marown. Onchan The village district of Onchan and the parish district of Onchan. Douglas North That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of Glencrutchery and St. Ninian's. Douglas South That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of St. George's (except the part within the constituency of Douglas East), Quay and Pulrose. Douglas East That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of Tynwald, Crescent, Strand, Windsor and Derby, that part of the polling district of St. George's lying to the north-east of a line along the middle of Upper Church Street and that part of the polling district of Murrays lying to the east of a line along the middle of Woodbourne Road. Douglas West That part of the borough of Douglas comprising the polling districts of Garden City, Murrays (except the part within the constituency of Douglas East), Albany, Ballabrooie and Eastfield. Castletown The town district of Castletown. Malew and Santon The parish districts of Malew and Santon. Rushen The village districts of Port Erin and Port St. Mary and the parish districts of Rushen and Arbory. Just imagine you were a new resident to the island and didn't know where any of these places were. Where should I look for the information to base my comments on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I will see if I can find a list but it is principles the committee is looking at Just imagine you were a new resident to the island and didn't know where any of these places were. Where should I look for the information to base my comments on? You don't need a map or a list down to street level to comment on the principles, however if you are so desparate I will post an all island A2 map with all constituencies and polling districts boundaries marked upon it. All you need do is PM me with your name and address, which I will keep confidential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderer Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 The challenge is to find a structure which is consistent across constituencies and equitable in terms of the size of electorate - and can attract widespread support in Tynwald. There is a lot to be said for 3 seat constituencies which can enable electors to vote for a range of different outlooks and skills. So the obvious thing to do is to go for 8 x 3 seat constituencies. Biggest challenge will probably be what we do for boundaries around Douglas (which currently has 8 MHKs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 The challenge is to find a structure which is consistent across constituencies and equitable in terms of the size of electorate - and can attract widespread support in Tynwald. There is a lot to be said for 3 seat constituencies which can enable electors to vote for a range of different outlooks and skills. So the obvious thing to do is to go for 8 x 3 seat constituencies. Biggest challenge will probably be what we do for boundaries around Douglas (which currently has 8 MHKs). It was said of Douglas that it was overepresented. The last report highlighted under registration, it will be interesting what the census figures say. It may be that Douglas and Onchan actually deserve 9 and 3. Please make submissions to Caroline Mallon at Government Office. Ponderer what would be your boundaries for 8 three seaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I will see if I can find a list but it is principles the committee is looking at Just imagine you were a new resident to the island and didn't know where any of these places were. Where should I look for the information to base my comments on? You don't need a map or a list down to street level to comment on the principles, however if you are so desparate I will post an all island A2 map with all constituencies and polling districts boundaries marked upon it. All you need do is PM me with your name and address, which I will keep confidential. Thanks for the offer of maps by post I am not desparate or even desperate. I was just making the point that there must be hundreds of people on the island who don't know where the boundaries are but would like to comment. And if the IOM government wants to have a meaningingful public consultation they should ensure that all relevant maps and documents are availabe locally for people to consult. Otherwise you will only have people who are inside the system commenting on it and there is a danger of turkeys for Christmas. That's why you don't get local government or LegCo reform. MHks and commissioners see it narrowly in terms of how it will affect them personally not in broader terms of fairness andd democracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderer Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Ponderer what would be your boundaries for 8 three seaters? Hmmm not sure I have enough information. I would probably begin with some principles - eg We want 8 x 3 member constituencies with equal populations (or electorate? - would that not be more accurate?) using the latest data and within certain limits, say no constituency should be more than say 3% larger than any other consitutuency. Then decide to take into account local factors such as neighbourhoods and where they look to. It gets really hard at this point! But lets have a go... nothing ventured... Decide where to start drawing the first boundary. Where you start matters (there is likely to be 1 constituency which suffers from fitting round all the others - the last one to be drawn. A look at the map suggests to me that Middle was the rather strangely shaped last constiutency last time round?). Say lets start in Douglas. One constituency will have to go (East Douglas? West Douglas?) leaving 3 Douglas seats - and you may need to bring in parts of Middle - probably best not to touch Onchan or the other existing 3 seat constituency at Rushen. If you keep Onchan then Garff will probably end up with Ramsey and then Ayre and Michael will probably join a bit of Glenfaba and a bit of Middle to make up a 3 seat constituency. That doesn't look too bad on a map. You then have 7 constituencies with one left. It would consist of Malew & Santon, Most of Glenfaba, Peel and a bit of Middle. OK. So lots of people will have 'issues' with this (eg will Garff be happy in with Ramsey? What about Santon in with Peel? etc. But its an iterative process to some extent. And you have to start somewhere! Also, you'll never please everybody however you draw the boundary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderer Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Ponderer what would be your boundaries for 8 three seaters? Hmmm not sure I have enough information. I would probably begin with some principles - eg We want 8 x 3 member constituencies with equal populations (or electorate? - would that not be more accurate?) using the latest data and within certain limits, say no constituency should be more than say 3% larger than any other consitutuency. Then decide to take into account local factors such as neighbourhoods and where they look to. It gets really hard at this point! But lets have a go... nothing ventured... Decide where to start drawing the first boundary. Where you start matters (there is likely to be 1 constituency which suffers from fitting round all the others - the last one to be drawn. A look at the map suggests to me that Middle was the rather strangely shaped last constiutency last time round?). Say lets start in Douglas. One constituency will have to go (East Douglas? West Douglas?) leaving 3 Douglas seats - and you may need to bring in parts of Middle - probably best not to touch Onchan or the other existing 3 seat constituency at Rushen. If you keep Onchan then Garff will probably end up with Ramsey and then Ayre and Michael will probably join a bit of Glenfaba and a bit of Middle to make up a 3 seat constituency. That doesn't look too bad on a map. You then have 7 constituencies with one left. It would consist of Malew & Santon, Most of Glenfaba, Peel and a bit of Middle. OK. So lots of people will have 'issues' with this (eg will Garff be happy in with Ramsey? What about Santon in with Peel? etc. But its an iterative process to some extent. And you have to start somewhere! Also, you'll never please everybody however you draw the boundary... Sorry I forgot to mention that Castletown would also probably go in with Malew and Santon, Peel and bits of Glenfaba and Middle. Here is where the latest electorate stats becoming important. If (as suggested) Douglas is underrepresented at the moment on the stats then somewhere is over represented and will have to lose out... If most of Middle goes into a new west douglas then perhaps peel might even end up with Ayre, Michael and north Glenfaba. Leaving Castletown, Santon/Malew and South Glenfaba and the rest of Middle.... it all depends on the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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