[BBC News] Business support for smoking ban

[Snaipyr]

I am a non smoker. I was brought up by a father who smoked 80 a day from joining up in 1939 to a week before he died in 2003. His last week ws made miserabel because soem nurse at Nobles wouldn't help him outside for the odd ciggy and when he complained they doped him.

 

I am happy with the Spanish ban which is partial and choice rtelated at this stage. Most establishments below a certain size cannot have separate area, so they choose smoking or non smoking and on the doors have a red no entry sign with a ciggie or a green circle with a ciggie to let you know.

 

Most have good airconditioning and what is more sound proof non sound pollution escape double doors.

 

Result you can choose where to go. I don't mind a meal in a restaurant with a smoker or in a non smoking restaurant as long as the food is good. No longer drink to suport my partners struggle to stop so thats not an issue at present

 

I do hate the smell on my clothes the next morning however.

 

The Spanish model seems to be a sensible and reasonable solution. A compromise can always be found so long as intelligent and liberal people are in charge.

 

So for any chippies in the IOM - start designing your easily-erected smoking shelters for pubs now. In Ireland the variety of interpretations of 'enclosed spaces' is truly wonderous, and some of these 'add-on' sheds are busier than the main bars - especially those that have heating and decent furniture!

[Lost Login]

That is half my previous point. If half as much of the effort that is currently being made in trying to provide "smoking" areas that comply with the law had previously been put into making non smoking areas then the "pressure" for the current proposals may not have arisen. Unfortunately it was not and in pubs generally it was always a case of like it or lump it in respect of smoking. It only appears to be that now it is like it or lump it in respect of non smoking that the industry and others have started to address the issue seriously into looking for compromises.

 

I am not sure if the spanish system is a compromise. UK establishments could and IoM establishments still can choose if they want to be a non smoking establishment. The only difference is that they appear to have a read or green sticker on the door or am I missing something

 

 

 

The Spanish model seems to be a sensible and reasonable solution. A compromise can always be found so long as intelligent and liberal people are in charge.

 

So for any chippies in the IOM - start designing your easily-erected smoking shelters for pubs now. In Ireland the variety of interpretations of 'enclosed spaces' is truly wonderous, and some of these 'add-on' sheds are busier than the main bars - especially those that have heating and decent furniture!

[John Wright]

But from March 2008 they will all have to be non smoking by law

[lectro]

In fact in Ireland there has been an increase in revenue in pubs, restaurants, hotels - not a decline.

That propaganda is straight out of your arse.

 

Guinness sales slumped 9 per cent in Ireland in the second half of last year, as wine and spirits grew in popularity and more people chose to drink at home instead of in pubs.

 

If you read my post you'd see that I said drink sales were down but revenue was up. This is mostly due to more pubs doing food and adapting to the changes - i.e. offering a better service and better facilities. I also said that the drop in drink sales were partialty due to a change in drinking habits. You do read the posts before you hammer the keyboard don't you?

 

And the "propaganda" is from the horses mouth actually.... an uncle who owns two pubs in Dublin, a cousin who manages a hotel in the West of Ireland and friends who have a small hotel/bar/restaurant just outside Dublin. Publicans are the first to moan about money and the people I know well in the trade are secretly rubbing their hands. They have done better since the ban was introduced. The pubs that aren't doing as well are those that have not taken advantage of the change in law and are stubbornly refusing to change. Some are unlucky and don't have the room to offer better facilities so the smokers have to smoke out in the rain. That's hard luck but hey publicans have had it easy street for long enough - they'll tell you that themselves. They've now had to put in a bit of effort to try offer a better service.

 

What will be interesting to see is how the publicans or more to the point the brewery responds over here. Will they take advantage of the law change and shake up their business a bit to offer more to the customer or will they just leave it as it is? My bet is that it won't change very much over here.

 

So from a health point of view the ban is a no-brainer and the hysteria about pubs closing and publicans going bust is rubbish. Even if it was true it's more likely to be because the price of drink has gone up yet again.

[Do the Navan Walk]

"an uncle who owns two pubs in Dublin"

 

That is large moolah. Which two are they, will call in when I am home in March.

 

All the Best

 

Do the Navan Walk

[Tugger]

I'm an ex-smoker (normally the most zealous type of anti-smoker) and am nevertheless instinctively against the ban. People are citing employee rights which for me is a compelling argument but the truth is that's not the real motivation here - the real motivation is that whining non-smokers want to stop other people from doing a hitherto perfectly legal thing - smoking, because THEY don't like it, not because they have some bleeding heart concern for barmaids.

 

I do hope that a few pubs continue to ignore the ban and that people deliberately blow smoke in the faces of those who whinge the loudest. If you can't enjoy yourself on a night out because of the perfectly legal activities of someone else, then stay in , you miserable, whining shites. Nobody will miss you!

[Pragmatopian]

I'm an ex-smoker (normally the most zealous type of anti-smoker) and am nevertheless instinctively against the ban. People are citing employee rights which for me is a compelling argument but the truth is that's not the real motivation here - the real motivation is that whining non-smokers want to stop other people from doing a hitherto perfectly legal thing - smoking, because THEY don't like it, not because they have some bleeding heart concern for barmaids.

 

I do hope that a few pubs continue to ignore the ban and that people deliberately blow smoke in the faces of those who whinge the loudest. If you can't enjoy yourself on a night out because of the perfectly legal activities of someone else, then stay in , you miserable, whining shites. Nobody will miss you!

 

So you stopping presumably had nothing to do with health concerns and you would deny yourself and other non-smokers the health benefit of working or enjoying themselves in a smoke-free environment? I don't get it

[Tugger]

It had everything to do with health concerns - hence my CHOICE to stop.

[Pragmatopian]

It had everything to do with health concerns - hence my CHOICE to stop.

 

But doesn't allowing smoking in public places deny those of us who have stopped or never started the CHOICE not to inhale smoke, short of being miserable, whining shites and staying in or at work?

[Lost Login]

Could you not also argue that the whining smokers want to stop other people from enjoying a drink in a pub without inhaling smoke because they do not like having a drink without a smoke.

 

Equally it could be argued that if you can not enjoy yourself on a night out without undertaking an activity which will then be illegal then stay in you miserable...

 

 

 

I'm an ex-smoker (normally the most zealous type of anti-smoker) and am nevertheless instinctively against the ban. People are citing employee rights which for me is a compelling argument but the truth is that's not the real motivation here - the real motivation is that whining non-smokers want to stop other people from doing a hitherto perfectly legal thing - smoking, because THEY don't like it, not because they have some bleeding heart concern for barmaids.

 

I do hope that a few pubs continue to ignore the ban and that people deliberately blow smoke in the faces of those who whinge the loudest. If you can't enjoy yourself on a night out because of the perfectly legal activities of someone else, then stay in , you miserable, whining shites. Nobody will miss you!

[Tugger]

The smokers would be happy I am sure with SOME bars where they were allowed to smoke. The health nazis will not be satisfied unless ALL ESTABLISHMENTS bow to their requirements. I mean, Jesus, is there no limit to the amount of babyish whingeing and bitching that you people can come out with over a bit of a smokey atmosphere in a pub?

[Lost Login]

In the UK in the same period Guniness sales were down to 5% so at most you could argue that 4% is the effect of the smoking ban. Obviouly though that is to simplistic as in Ireland Guniness has slowly been losing out to Murphy's and Magners cider. Both those have increased in sales

 

There is also demographics as in about 2000 when in the UK 34% of beer sales were for home consumption in Ireland it was only 11%. This was roughly the figure in the UK in 1980. Maybe Ireland has been catching up over the years as Guniness sales in Ireland were also down between 3% and 5% on average in the years before the ban.

 

The only real comparison might be sales in terms of revenue & volume for both countries over the years

 

If you read my post you'd see that I said drink sales were down but revenue was up. This is mostly due to more pubs doing food and adapting to the changes - i.e. offering a better service and better facilities. I also said that the drop in drink sales were partialty due to a change in drinking habits. You do read the posts before you hammer the keyboard don't you?

[Lost Login]

Below is the opposite argument but yes some moaned & winged about smoking in pubs but generally it was put up with. The winging comes mainly from the smokers who are anti the ban and the anti's who are winging or replying what they had to put up with in the past. How about if you agree not to moan about the ban and the anti's agree not to moan what it was like before

 

I mean, Jesus, is there no limit to the amount of babyish whingeing and bitching that us smokers can come out with over not smoking in a pub?

[Pragmatopian]

The smokers would be happy I am sure with SOME bars where they were allowed to smoke.

 

Fair point to which even a hardened health nazi facist like myself can concede

[Tugger]

Below is the opposite argument but yes some moaned & winged about smoking in pubs but generally it was put up with. The winging comes mainly from the smokers who are anti the ban and the anti's who are winging or replying what they had to put up with in the past. How about if you agree not to moan about the ban and the anti's agree not to moan what it was like before

 

I mean, Jesus, is there no limit to the amount of babyish whingeing and bitching that us smokers can come out with over not smoking in a pub?

 

Except I don't smoke. This doesn't inconvenience ME in any way, shape or form.