Fluoride In The Water

[Chinahand]

By advocating fluoridation you are committing an act of assault (the threat of violence – the administration of a unwanted substance), which could result in actual bodily harm (dental fluorosis). If you were to get your way the act of battery would be carried out by the Manx Water Authority. I believe Manx WA, you and other proponents would be liable for any harm and criminally so.

Is this the level this debate has got to - claiming that anyone even advocating implementing the World Health Organizations recommendations on optimally fluorinated water are committing an assault.

 

Just commenting on this makes me criminally liable!

 

Me, a nobody on an internet forum. Get real!

 

Extreme views in deed; and ones that fly in the face of on going fluoridation in the Midlands and the North East.

[jimbms]

I think we are going to much on the issue of the advantages or disadvantages of this process when the real issue is should this be forced upon people against thier will, to me those who say yes to this are also saying yes to the abolision of choice

[saveourwater]

Manx Radio ‘Mandate AM’ Wednesday May 21st

 

Tune in to tomorrow morning’s Mandate AM (7.30 - 8.00 AM) on Manx Radio where you will have an opportunity to listen to an interview with Dr Hans Moolenburgh on water fluoridation.

 

Dr Moolenburgh was one of many GP’s in The Netherlands that grouped together with other opponents of fluoridation after it was introduced to the water supply.

 

After a hard fought campaign fluoridation was eventually abandoned and is now a ‘banned’ substance for water supplies in Holland.

 

Dr Moolenburgh will reveal the Dutch experience to Manx residents tomorrow morning.

 

Tune in online HERE or on radio at 89 - 103FM or 1368AM, if you miss the show you can also download it later via the Manx Radio ‘Listen Again’ feature HERE.

[manshimajin]

I think we are going to much on the issue of the advantages or disadvantages of this process when the real issue is should this be forced upon people against thier will, to me those who say yes to this are also saying yes to the abolision of choice

 

I agree entirely with you - look at the internet and for every article in favour there is one against so you could well say that the debate about fluoride is a draw.

 

What is neither ethical nor professional is to have a poll with loaded questions that also practices ageism by declining to gather the opinions of older people in the community. Nor does the poll canvas the alternatives of better dental services and individual use of fluoridated products.

 

If you are unhappy about the way things are panning out your answer is to write to your MHK, to the Market Research Association and to the letter coumns of the paper.

 

Edit: does anyone know the contact email addresses for letters to manx newspapers?

[saveourwater]

Edit: does anyone know the contact email addresses for letters to manx newspapers?

 

For Isle of Man Newspapers I believe the best e-mail address is this one : -

 

newsdesk@newsiom.co.im

[Polaris]

Edit: does anyone know the contact email addresses for letters to manx newspapers?

 

For Isle of Man Newspapers I believe the best e-mail address is this one : -

 

newsdesk@newsiom.co.im

What's the consultation address to reply NO to? Emerson's probably had postcards printed for the island's doctors and dentists to send in. Talk about a stitch-up. Let's hope they have the sense to say NO too (Hippocratic Oath - First, do no harm).

[saveourwater]

What's the consultation address to reply NO to? Emerson's probably had postcards printed for the island's doctors and dentists to send in. Talk about a stitch-up. Let's hope they have the sense to say NO too (Hippocratic Oath - First, do no harm).

 

The address to say 'NO' to is : -

 

PUBLIC HEALTH DIRECTORATE

Crookall House

Demesne Road

Douglas

IM1 3QA

 

E-mail: publichealth@gov.im

 

Great signature Polaris, I'll join you in that.

[mona]

In effect, this is all rather like the abortion issue. Do we abort at 20 weeks or 30 weeks (or whatever).

 

How about preventing our Tracey from becoming pregnant in the very first place rather than talking about stables doors???

 

Oh, I see, we tried that and failed.

 

I realise of course there is a lot more to the abortion thing than meets the eye, but there again, there is a lot more to looking after our personal health than whether ot not to force medicate/treat the whole populace.

 

Are out leaders of society in Tynwald so lacklustre that they are simply unable to see beyond the perceived problem.

 

 

Isle of Man = Government by knee jerk.

[triskelion]

Erm, I think you'll find that the Government has invested in health education programmes, they just have been effective enough.

 

Tooth decay has (obviously) been a long-term concern, so this is hardly a knee-jerk reaction.

[saveourwater]

In 1993/94 we surveyed 98.5% of the 5-year-old children on the Island and found that we had a 37% decay rate, this put us top of the league table compared with the North West of England and also against the rest of England outside the North West i.e we had the best teeth compared with the UK.

 

In 1993/94 we also carried out bi-annual inspections of the children’s teeth at both primary and middle school level.

 

Then we appointed a new Senior Dental Officer who has been in charge ever since. In the 1995/96 survey the decay rate had jumped 17.9% to 55% and has hovered around 50% from then until now (latest figure 52%).

 

For thirteen years this problem has been around – we went from having the best teeth compared to the UK to the worst teeth, yet the person in charge has kept her job.

 

When we had the best teeth we used to look inside the kid’s mouths twice a year to see if there were any problems – if there were I guess we did something about them as evidenced by the much lower decay rate of 37%. What has happened since that new Senior Dental Officer took ever? The school inspections went from twice a year, then down to once a year and now they have stopped altogether – we no longer do school inspections.

 

Budgets will have gone up since the golden days of 1993/94, so will staffing levels but it appears that the oral health of the children has become a lot worse – yet still the same SDO keeps her job.

 

The last survey only looked at around 30% of the 5 year old children on the Island to arrive at the decay rate of 52%, so even the survey appears to be too much work for this SDO. We have gone from a 98.5% survey coverage and 2 inspections a year down to a 30% survey coverage and no inspections a year and what is the result? Decay goes up from 37% to 52%.

 

Regular dental inspections and education on brushing and diet are the solutions we should be turning to. I would also start advertising for a new Senior Dental Officer because the one we have now appears to have done absolutely nothing to improve the oral health of our children for the past 13 years.

[jimbms]

saveourwater and chinahand do you have some probblems understanding what people are saying, let us do a brief recap, both of you are continualy spouting facts you find on the net contradicting each other. ENOUGH, lets depate the moral issue

[saveourwater]

saveourwater and chinahand do you have some probblems understanding what people are saying, let us do a brief recap, both of you are continualy spouting facts you find on the net contradicting each other. ENOUGH, lets depate the moral issue

 

I do not have a problem understanding what people are saying at all jimbms, in fact the ethical argument is central to our campaign.

 

What I am saying in my post above is that the reason we are all even discussing fluoridation in the first place is because we have a crisis in dental care.

 

This was not the case in the past, in the past we had the best teeth and we need to revert back to what we used to do before considering unethical, dangerous practices that will not cure the problem.

[Lost Login]

saveourwater and chinahand do you have some probblems understanding what people are saying, let us do a brief recap, both of you are continualy spouting facts you find on the net contradicting each other. ENOUGH, lets depate the moral issue

 

I do not have a problem understanding what people are saying at all jimbms, in fact the ethical argument is central to our campaign.

 

 

I must admit I have must missed this campaign as central to the campaign I have seen from yourself is basically scaremongering. I may though have miss understand what you believe the ethical argument is. As far as I am an concerned it is whether it is right to add a substance to water which in many places is naturally occuring, is basically harmless in the concentrations added, would improve dental health of children but is not required to make the water safe to drink and would be of little benefit to many drinking it. That is an argument many of those who argue with you in respect of pseudo science and scaremongering might agree with. e.g. ballaugh biker

 

Or is the ethical argument from your point of you that we should not add POISON to the water, and that if we are we are all doomed your teath will go black etc etc

[Chinahand]

A simple series of questions linked with the ethics of fluoride - are the people of Hartlepool, or parts of Essex, where fluoride is naturally around the World Health Organization's optimal levels subject to mass medication?

 

Should the Water Authorities be mandated to de-fluorinate these area's water supplies?

 

How should water quality standards account for the Fluoride ions naturally in these areas water supply?

[manxiememe]

A simple series of questions linked with the ethics of fluoride - are the people of Hartlepool, or parts of Essex, where fluoride is naturally around the World Health Organization's optimal levels subject to mass medication?

 

Yup, that's the one... Naturally, as you quote. It's not in the water here NATURALLY.