Council/commissioners Property

[ramsea]

I'd love to see people who can blatantly afford to buy a property kicked out of their £60 a week rent commissioners house. I know people who actually own property abroad yet live with their partners in commissioners houses...how is that fair? Can the commissioners do anything about it? Can they hell.

 

It is very difficult for people to be kicked out of their home due to human right bollocks etc

 

I agree it is not easy in deciding who should be entitled to subsidised housing, but with households earning £60k and upwards with no debts or other financial responsibilities such as paying kids through uni etc should really be made to look elsewhere and to allow people in more need to be given a chance.

[localyokel]

People who earn more than the amount that would see them get a house in the first place shouldn't be evicted automatically either, their rent should be increased until it is in line with market rates for that area and there should be a point where they are encouraged to move on but not evicted. There is a huge gulf between the earnings cut off level for commissioners housing and the amount required to get a mortgage to buy on the island, moving everyone into private sector rented accommodation just provides more victims for the buy-to-rent brigade that many of you moan about, buying up all the houses on your estate.

 

That is essentially the best idea - re-value their rent until it gets to the stage that they may as well buy their own place. There are far too many people paying pathetic council rates of rent in proportion to their income who would never move out without a nudge.

 

The basic problem on this Island though is that the property market is a joke. There is no incentive to move out of rented accomodation when your paying £150,000 for some crappy flat (sorry luxury apartment) but private rents are so high that over time they are forcing people to make the move because they have no option of corporation housing or other to fall back on. At the same time social housing is also in short supply and there are many people on modest incomes struggling to rent at extortionate rates in the private sector who would benefit from being able to live in social housing if they had the chance.

 

If that first move was easier to make it would free up a lot of property, but sadly it would knock the rental income of all those middle class banker-wankers and their buy to lets so its unlikely to happen until there is a dent in prices.

 

We have such an imbalanced economy here now that there is no real solution as if we are not careful they are going to have to build more council houses as people will be totally excluded from both the private rental market and the first time buyer market.

[doodlebug]

Sorry Wideload. Of course there will be people in the financial sector who don't earn the huge salaries - yet.

 

Sadly there are some people who it is impossible to have a discussion with. It's the "I'm right, you're wrong and no reasonable argument will persuade me otherwise" type who start to get abusive when you don't see things from their blinkered perspective. There have been some very interesting ideas mentioned in this thread. I think the idea of having different rents depending on income is a very good idea.

 

Personally I'm getting a bit desperate about our situation. We don't actually have a lease anymore as it ran out at the weekend, but the landlord has said we can stay on a month by month basis until the house is sold. If it is sold and we haven't found anywhere we can actually afford or fit into what then? Am I supposed to put my 3 children into care and move into a tiny flat with my husband? The problem is that the rent we are paying at the moment is really more than we can afford, but there doesn't seem to be anything less than this. This is one reason why it reallly annoys me when people who can afford to move out of their subsidised housing don't (the money they save each month on rent could be saved towards a deposit - they would save thousands of pounds in one year). I'm going to speak to my MHK at the weekend and see what he can suggest, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Mr. Sausages]

Of course there will be people in the financial sector who don't earn the huge salaries - yet.

 

And most never do. The finance sector might bring in a lot of money to the island, but it doesn't get shared out amongst the office admins, secretaries, bank clerks etc who keep it all ticking.

[Lonan3]

I am the fourth heartless bastard. I don't see why it should be considered any worse to tell granddad that he's moving out of his oversized home than it is to tell a low income family with two kids that there is no subsidised housing stock available for them (apart from maybe a one bedroom flat that isn't big enough for gramps).

So, simple question - would the four of you be happy to have your rates/taxes dramatically increased so that sufficient subsidised housing stock could be provided for everyone who needs it?

Or would you prefer a system under which privately-rented housing is properly regulated in terms of what is provided by the landlords and the amounts paid for it in rent?

There is, as someone has pointed out, a difference between the wealth of the island and the wealth of its people - much of what is generated does not 'trickle down' to those who need it most and the result is that the local authority housing stock has never been sufficient for the needs of those who cannot afford to buy their own homes and cannot afford the often grossly-inflated rents charged by the private sector.

What is happening is that we are pointing the finger at the relatively few people who are abusing the system instead of screaming that the system itself is faulty and needs to be altered. It is not the small number of system abusers who need to be castigated - it is the system that allows them to get away with it; and for that, we have to look at our politicians (God help us!) and the civil servants who operate the system and have the means to change it - if the will to do so exists.

[feelslikeitshould]

Personally I'm getting a bit desperate about our situation. We don't actually have a lease anymore as it ran out at the weekend, but the landlord has said we can stay on a month by month basis until the house is sold. If it is sold and we haven't found anywhere we can actually afford or fit into what then? Am I supposed to put my 3 children into care and move into a tiny flat with my husband? The problem is that the rent we are paying at the moment is really more than we can afford, but there doesn't seem to be anything less than this.

 

No, move in to a tiny flat with your children. All of you in one bedroom will get their attention. You do need to speak to your MHK, stating the facts, like how long you've been waiting etc. they should then write to your local authority. If you're in real danger of getting chucked out of your house, they will help you find somewhere. Don't be too proud to accept anything you can get, move in with relatives, anything. We only got our house when we did after 7 years waiting because the people ahead of us on the list. IMO, if you can afford to turn down a perfectly good house, you don't really need one that badly.

This is one reason why it reallly annoys me when people who can afford to move out of their subsidised housing don't (the money they save each month on rent could be saved towards a deposit - they would save thousands of pounds in one year).

 

Yes, but they still need to save up somewhere in the region of £10k, which is likely to be at least a third of their income, it'd still take a few years for them to save that money. Or would you have them put in your situation instead? Moved into a house they can just about afford, just because they earn more than they did when they moved into their subsidised housing?

[doodlebug]

Personally I'm getting a bit desperate about our situation. We don't actually have a lease anymore as it ran out at the weekend, but the landlord has said we can stay on a month by month basis until the house is sold. If it is sold and we haven't found anywhere we can actually afford or fit into what then? Am I supposed to put my 3 children into care and move into a tiny flat with my husband? The problem is that the rent we are paying at the moment is really more than we can afford, but there doesn't seem to be anything less than this.

 

No, move in to a tiny flat with your children. All of you in one bedroom will get their attention. You do need to speak to your MHK, stating the facts, like how long you've been waiting etc. they should then write to your local authority. If you're in real danger of getting chucked out of your house, they will help you find somewhere. Don't be too proud to accept anything you can get, move in with relatives, anything. We only got our house when we did after 7 years waiting because the people ahead of us on the list. IMO, if you can afford to turn down a perfectly good house, you don't really need one that badly.

This is one reason why it reallly annoys me when people who can afford to move out of their subsidised housing don't (the money they save each month on rent could be saved towards a deposit - they would save thousands of pounds in one year).

 

Yes, but they still need to save up somewhere in the region of £10k, which is likely to be at least a third of their income, it'd still take a few years for them to save that money. Or would you have them put in your situation instead? Moved into a house they can just about afford, just because they earn more than they did when they moved into their subsidised housing?

 

 

That's not what I was advocating. Some of them have been in a comfortably off position for a good few years. They could have been saving for all those years. Walk past a commissioner's estate - you will see good cars and satellite dishes. That seems to be their priority - along with the holidays.

[Addie]

Yes, but they still need to save up somewhere in the region of £10k, which is likely to be at least a third of their income, it'd still take a few years for them to save that money. Or would you have them put in your situation instead? Moved into a house they can just about afford, just because they earn more than they did when they moved into their subsidised housing?

 

Is it easier to save whilst paying a lesser rent than when paying a higher rent? Yes.

 

Is it easier to save whilst on a higher salary than on a lesser one? Yes.

 

But everyone neeeds to save for a deposit, surely? That, in my opinion, is one of the biggest difficulties in buying a first home. It's a continual catch-up situation with savers forever chasing house prices.

[Tugger]

I am the fourth heartless bastard. I don't see why it should be considered any worse to tell granddad that he's moving out of his oversized home than it is to tell a low income family with two kids that there is no subsidised housing stock available for them (apart from maybe a one bedroom flat that isn't big enough for gramps).

So, simple question - would the four of you be happy to have your rates/taxes dramatically increased so that sufficient subsidised housing stock could be provided for everyone who needs it?

Or would you prefer a system under which privately-rented housing is properly regulated in terms of what is provided by the landlords and the amounts paid for it in rent?

There is, as someone has pointed out, a difference between the wealth of the island and the wealth of its people - much of what is generated does not 'trickle down' to those who need it most and the result is that the local authority housing stock has never been sufficient for the needs of those who cannot afford to buy their own homes and cannot afford the often grossly-inflated rents charged by the private sector.

What is happening is that we are pointing the finger at the relatively few people who are abusing the system instead of screaming that the system itself is faulty and needs to be altered. It is not the small number of system abusers who need to be castigated - it is the system that allows them to get away with it; and for that, we have to look at our politicians (God help us!) and the civil servants who operate the system and have the means to change it - if the will to do so exists.

 

I would be prepared to pay slightly more taxes for more social housing but not until the systemic problems are cured. I think the means testing ideas debated above might lead to significantly lower demand for council properties - the reason people like them so much is because even if you are making a very good wage council houses are CHEAP. All I think most people are saying on these threads is that the housing is poorly allocated.

[Addie]

So, simple question - would the four of you be happy to have your rates/taxes dramatically increased so that sufficient subsidised housing stock could be provided for everyone who needs it?

I would not expect to pay more until all data concerning the islands public housing stock and the requirements of its tenants was assessed.

 

Or would you prefer a system under which privately-rented housing is properly regulated in terms of what is provided by the landlords and the amounts paid for it in rent?

For very many years I have advocated a limit on the number of properties owned by any one individual/company on the island.

 

What is happening is that we are pointing the finger at the relatively few people who are abusing the system instead of screaming that the system itself is faulty and needs to be altered.

I agree

 

It is not the small number of system abusers who need to be castigated…

I disagree

 

…it is the system that allows them to get away with it;

I agree

 

…and for that, we have to look at our politicians (God help us!) and the civil servants who operate the system and have the means to change it - if the will to do so exists.

I agree

[puddy]

People are generally better-off financially after their children have flown the nest and they've climbed the career ladder. Therefore in middle age, people living in council houses might be able to afford nice cars, satellite television and perhaps even a holiday every now and then. I haven't tried getting a mortgage in middle age, but I'm sure it must be difficult with fewer working years ahead of you.

 

Should only rich people have children? Perhaps that would make some people happy. I personally will only have children when we think we can afford it but I don't agree at all that parenthood should only be for the rich, although I know many people who do think this.

 

In many cases it does seem like only the well-off and poor are the ones having children anyway, but that's a different issue.