tucker Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1ece148d9a...132c9b00e7.html http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=916&id=161712005 Say no more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1ece148d9a...132c9b00e7.htmlhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=916&id=161712005 Say no more From BBC: Carer guilty of abusing children A woman who punished three young children in her care by ramming sticks down their throats has been convicted of abuse spanning 20 years. So by your logic all child carers are bad? Your example is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Some posters here if living in Nazi Germany would obviously follow the laws of that regime to the letter! Jews were scum because the state decreed it! To not question legislation and propaganda which criminalises probably millions of people is perhaps the worst crime of all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucker Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1ece148d9a...132c9b00e7.htmlhttp://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=916&id=161712005 Say no more From BBC: Carer guilty of abusing children A woman who punished three young children in her care by ramming sticks down their throats has been convicted of abuse spanning 20 years. So by your logic all child carers are bad? Your example is crap. Would you leave your kids in the charge of someone out of their head on cannabis ? My examples have nothing to do with childminders and everything to do with drug taking ,if you don't understand that then i suggest you leave the shit alone and get someone to explain it to you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mo beats experience Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Wow, has it been a year already? Who won this pointless argument last time, i can't be arsed looking it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Would you leave your kids in the charge of someone out of their head on cannabis ?My examples have nothing to do with childminders and everything to do with drug taking ,if you don't understand that then i suggest you leave the shit alone and get someone to explain it to you ! That's irrelevant as the carer in my example wasn't 'out of their heads on cannabis'. Would you leave your children with a mature, respected member of the community, with 20 years experience in caring and a regular church goer like this nice lady? I think you missed my simple point. So what? You have shown me 2 murders via cannabis alledgely. How many murders under the influence of drink do you think there have been? BTW I understand you fully and what you were trying to achieve, I just thought it was a shortsighted example. But my point stands, your example is rubbish and proves nothing - also assuming someone you don't know smokes pot, so won't understand, is equally a rubbish point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 There is a role for you in Aardman animation's new series Rog, Shaun the Sheep ! You keep following blindly and accepting that governments always get all laws right. Just like the grossly unfair poll tax not too many years that unfairly crippled many law abiding 'non scum' citizens who simply couldnt afford to pay. Then lo and behold it was swiftly phased out when guess what.............THE GOVERNMENT GOT THEIR LAWS WRONG !!!!! PK please tell me you now understand the premise of the argument, just because something is DEEMED illegal it does not mean the law is fair or correct, A big thanks to those above who have correctly stated that to blindly follow and not challenge such inconsistencies and misjustices within our judicial system is much worse than to speak up and protest against them. To then label all people who break any kind of law as scum is simply a sad old tosser desperately trying to get a reaction as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 THE GOVERNMENT GOT THEIR LAWS WRONG !!!!! PK please tell me you now understand the premise of the argument, just because something is DEEMED illegal it does not mean the law is fair or correct A big thanks to those above who have correctly stated that to blindly follow and not challenge such inconsistencies and misjustices within our judicial system is much worse than to speak up and protest against them. To then label all people who break any kind of law as scum is simply a sad old tosser desperately trying to get a reaction as far as I can see. Oh really? During the trial, the court heard how his repeated use of cannabis probably worsened his mental state. Thomas Palmer used a knife in the frenzied attack He told doctors after the killings that in the months before he attacked his two friends with a hunting knife he had started seeing and hearing things. Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6465783.stm You think those who follow the letter of the law are mindless sheep? Somehow I can't help thinking that those who deliberately seek mindlessness through drugs are the ones who have obviously lost the plot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 During the trial, the court heard how his repeated use of cannabis probably worsened his mental state. Thomas Palmer used a knife in the frenzied attack He told doctors after the killings that in the months before he attacked his two friends with a hunting knife he had started seeing and hearing things.Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6465783.stm You think those who follow the letter of the law are mindless sheep? Somehow I can't help thinking that those who deliberately seek mindlessness through drugs are the ones who have obviously lost the plot..... You should read my earlier post. This example proves what exactly? He probably had existing mental health problems. We haven't suddenly 'discovered' that cannabis is related to mental health problems. The IOS report doesn't 'Reveal' anything new at all. You can look at text books and commission reports from the as far back as the 1920s that document symptoms from cannabis use that are actually remarkably similar to those we have today. They say that for most people the risks of occasional use are low (certainly relative to most other commonly used recreational drugs) but that heavy use, particularly for a small sub-set of users with pre-existing mental health problems or certain other vulnerabilities, presents real dangers of of exacerbating existing problems or potentially precipitating new ones. These problems include psychotic episodes (occasionally recurring), schizophrenia and so on. These are the same conclusions that have been reached by innumerable studies and reviews over the last hundred years, most recently two undertaken by the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs which came before and after the drug's UK reclassification from B to C: For most people the risks are minimal, but for a few they are very real, particularly for certain vulnerable groups, and particularly when associated with high levels of use. Guess what? Drugs can be bad for you. http://transform-drugs.blogspot.com/2007/0...day-got-it.html I'm sure plenty of frenzied knife attacks have been under the influence of alchohol. It's not black and white and to think and try to portray it as such is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 You should read my earlier post. This example proves what exactly? He probably had existing mental health problems. I'm sure plenty of frenzied knife attacks have been under the influence of alchohol. It's not black and white and to think and try to portray it as such is just wrong. Well, slinkydevil, care to point out where I have portrayed that frenzied knife attacks under the influence of alcohol are somehow OK compared to those that take place under the influence of cannabis???? Those like slinkydevil who try to use alcohol to somehow play down revolting murders committed by those who are clearly bent out of shape with illegal drugs are just hiding behind social norms and hoping no-one notices. Well slinkydevil, here is a little fact you may not like - alcohol is distributed under license. So you are sure plenty of frenzied knife attacks have been under the influence of alcohol? Fine - let's see your figures boy.... Will they somehow mean that frenzied knife attacks committed under the influence of cannabis are somehow ok? Don't think so....... Large alcohol use tends to lead to - more alcohol use. Large cannabis use tends to lead to... tell you what slinkydevil, you seem to know so much about it - why don't you tell me???? This made me laugh: I'm calling bullshit imaginery 'good' friend for effect then. I had posted that a very good friend of mine had recently given up cannabis because "It was fucking me up" and poor old slinkydevil latches on to it to claim that my friend doesn't exist and that it is just a ruse to somehow back up my case that drugs fuck you up. With the conviction today with two stabbed to death by a regular cannabis user? Dear me, just how pathetic is that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mo beats experience Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 What an idiot. Its dickheads like you PK that've made the drugs problem we have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Well, slinkydevil, care to point out where I have portrayed that frenzied knife attacks under the influence of alcohol are somehow OK compared to those that take place under the influence of cannabis???? I didn't say you had. Again you have missed my point. Well slinkydevil, here is a little fact you may not like - alcohol is distributed under license. So you are sure plenty of frenzied knife attacks have been under the influence of alcohol? Fine - let's see your figures boy.... Will they somehow mean that frenzied knife attacks committed under the influence of cannabis are somehow ok? Don't think so....... Feeble attempt, sounds like you are pissed to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Your a sad sad individual trying to use this case to prove your deeply flawed views. Why dont you ignore the rest of the facts of the case stated in court. Namely the defendant WAS under the influence of alcohol when the crimes were committed, the defendant DID have existing mental health problems, the defendant DID have an unhealthy obsession with knives etc. Therefore lets ban all alcohol everywhere, lets lock up anyone with the slightest hint of any mental health problems and lets ban all knives including hunting, fishing, cooking etc etc. Jeez PK you are the true President of the Muppet society !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 In nearly half (44%) of all violent incidents, victims believed offenders to be under the influence of alcohol this figure rose to 54% in cases of 'stranger violence' the offender was least likely to be perceived to be under the influence of alcohol in the case of muggings (21%) (Source: British Crime Survey 2005/06) UK HOME OFFICE LINK "Single people, those living in rented accommodation, and those who visited pubs and clubs and drank alcohol more frequently, were found to be more likely to have taken drugs." www.publications.parliament.uk/ Both useful links for those who are interested in a few facts (I can't imagine Rog bothering) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Some posters here if living in Nazi Germany would obviously follow the laws of that regime to the letter! Jews were scum because the state decreed it!To not question legislation and propaganda which criminalises probably millions of people is perhaps the worst crime of all! I’m actually pleased that question has been raised although I am surprised that it has taken so long. I had expected it to be raised sooner, or maybe the question raised but based on Ghandi and what he did being brought in to the thread. Let’s stick to the Nazi case and here’s the issue in then form of a question. If a law is in itself promotes a thing that is immoral, is it then immoral to break that law? Now there’s a subject in its own right! MY opinion is that the answer lies within the answer to the question does absolute an morality exist, and my view is that it does. Moreover the question of the justification to claim that actions are moral can NOT be based on the actions of a huge number of people making what they do right on the basis that so many people do it. On the other hand legislation is a different matter, as the law and morality are not a perfect fit as there is much that is immoral that is not illegal, whereas there is precious little that is illegal that is morally sound, and prohibition of certain drugs is most emphatically NOT such a thing. On that basis there is good argument for the legalising a thing that is done by or approved of by the MAJORITY of the population, or at the very least a very large minority who can present and defend the case for it being permitted. As for the German and the Nazi issue, the answer to the ‘The Nuremberg Dilemma’ concerns whether a law is promoting a thing that is immoral and unwholesome for people irrespective of social, cultural, or racial differences. Note the use of the word ‘promoting’. Not just legalising, promoting. Worse yet directing, as was the case in Nazi Germany. The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 make for interesting reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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