sarahc Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 it might make the "gateway drug" (never really believed in that..) less interesting. I think the only way it's really a gateway drug is because of the people you have to hang around with or get in touch with to buy it. Many of them will be into taking and selling the harder stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 These things are seen as recreation in some parts of Norfolk, I'm sure having sex with poultry is seen as recreation in some parts of Norfolk. I refered to his possible use of alcohol as I still cannot accept that people who drink find their 'drug' acceptable and yet castigate others for the use of equally addictive subtances. It seems fine to have an addiction as long as its an over the counter addiction, rather than an under the counter one. Surely an alcoholic is as helpless as a heroin addict? Yet he can just pop into Threshers and it sort of legitimise it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted March 11, 2007 Author Share Posted March 11, 2007 That, basically, is the definition of a 'gateway drug'. There is no doubt that cannabis and its' derivatives are gateway drugs and could lead to heavier drugs because the dealers are often dealing other stuff as well. cannabis is a cheap gift, a loss leader if you like. Supermarkets do the same to entice customers and banks get you at uni and have you for life. Dealers are business people at the end of the day, they need to make a profit to afford their own habit. To that end users are truly victims of the trade, pawns in the game. How many of us have been tempted to try M&S on the way home from Tesco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 That, basically, is the definition of a 'gateway drug'.There is no doubt that cannabis and its' derivatives are gateway drugs and could lead to heavier drugs because the dealers are often dealing other stuff as well. cannabis is a cheap gift, a loss leader if you like. Supermarkets do the same to entice customers and banks get you at uni and have you for life. Dealers are business people at the end of the day, they need to make a profit to afford their own habit. To that end users are truly victims of the trade, pawns in the game. How many of us have been tempted to try M&S on the way home from Tesco? I'm with SarahC. I don't think gateway drugs exist but what soft drugs do is put you into the social circle of drug dealers who will push you to move further up the chain as they make more money by f**king your life up more. Legalising soft drugs actually takes that link away. If you could buy a spliff over the counter you never get to know a dealer, and you might not move on to the next level as your not pushed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 It's not just the vision of the hard-nosed dealer either. If you step over the line of legality and have a spliff, then you may think, well that wasn't so bad, maybe the other stuff isn't that scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 If you step over the line of legality and have a spliff, then you may think, well that wasn't so bad, maybe the other stuff isn't that scary. I'm sorry I don't buy that argument. In general those who try something harder tend to have been given an 'introductory offer' by some scumbag dealer or induced in some other way (often by a mate / partner who needs new customers to fund his own habit who talks them into it). I think very few who smoke the odd joint go 'That was good i wonder what heroin is like'. That said there are always morons who'll go straight to it on the basis that its the worst thing you can do and they want to say they've done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 How many of us have been tempted to try M&S on the way home from Tesco? Fuck, I can see it now! "At Tesco, we believe in in giving something back to our customers, that's why at Teseco when you but this £20 wrap of heroin and you can get this top quality family syringe pack and these his 'n' hers matching turnoquets for just £5. Tesco - because every hit counts" "There's skag, and there's Marks 'n' Spencer's premium A-Grade Nepalese Mocha Skag with pralene and mango couscous cut and with the only finest Italian horse tranquilizer." Meanwhile over in the Liverpool the Katonica kids are getting restless... "Hey, Are Gaz where's me chips." "Dunno, Are Shaz, me gut tinks me gizzard's cut." cut to a catatonic Kerry Katonica Voice over : Mum's worried about feeding all those hungry mouths? Don't! Because with Iceland own-brand Methdrone your worries are over. That's why Mum's gone to Iceland. "This week at Robinson's and Scorerite Supermarket we've got a special offer on locally grown skunk at £75 per kilo and with Manx Opium just coming into season there's never been at better time to grab a baragain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Drugs are the recreation of scum, of the weak willed, of the hedonistic, and of the people who for whatever reason engage in a life involving moral turpitude. A just say no message probably typed after half a bottle of Port eh Rog? There's nowt much hedonistic about Heroin. Unless shitting yourself and picking scabs off your arms counts as hedonism these days. These things are seen as recreation in some parts of Norfolk, whatever floats your boat. I think Roger and some of his boys must have an old batch of Cyclon B spare, found at the back of the cupboard no doubt somewhat charred but usable. Please get back to the subject and don't let the troll spoil the debate, which is going rather well I think. No, not after anything, and no, I'm not a troll. I really do standby what I write and drugs and drug users in my opinion deserve each other. They should both be left to work their magic out on each other until the inevitable end. It’s funny how junkies seem to think that what they do is 'OK' or that 'Everybody does it'. WRONG. It's NOT OK, and everybody does NOT do it. It’s immoral, it shows a weak character, it’s harmful and it’s disgusting. A bad batch of some substance --- GOOD. It’s just a shame that it’s not instantly lethal to the users. If you use drugs read this then know this. YOU may think that you’re OK, that it’s harmless, that it’s modern that it’s the done thing to do and so forth, and that only old people or wimps think it’s foul. Guess what. You’re WRONG. Most people who lead decent lives view you with contempt, some with compassion, but all who see the filthy habit that you have with disgust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 You should chill the fuck out and hit the bong, man. Funny how scum always attempt to bring decent people down to their level rather than trying to better themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 No, not after anything, and no, I'm not a troll. I really do standby what I write and drugs and drug users in my opinion deserve each other. They should both be left to work their magic out on each other until the inevitable end. It’s funny how junkies seem to think that what they do is 'OK' or that 'Everybody does it'. WRONG. It's NOT OK, and everybody does NOT do it. It’s immoral, it shows a weak character, it’s harmful and it’s disgusting. A bad batch of some substance --- GOOD. It’s just a shame that it’s not instantly lethal to the users. If you use drugs read this then know this. YOU may think that you’re OK, that it’s harmless, that it’s modern that it’s the done thing to do and so forth, and that only old people or wimps think it’s foul. Guess what. You’re WRONG. Most people who lead decent lives view you with contempt, some with compassion, but all who see the filthy habit that you have with disgust. Nice to see that the long absence from the forums hasn't reduced your sensitivity and compassion, Rog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 One of my biggest parenting dilemas is going to be how to stop my children abusing drugs. I've known absolutely brilliant people reduced to demotivated wastrel slackers just by a pyschological addiction to dope and I totally agree with SarahC, if you are in a social group where people are dealing dope it is likely there will be people dealing pills and powder and the more extreme forms of drug. I don't agree with StuartT, I don't think someone just goes oh I've tried dope, lets go and try heroin. Its more - I had a great night out with Freddie - we smoked some dope, then Freddie did some cocaine - he said it was great and looks ok this morning - maybe next saturday I'll ask him if I can share some of his, or get some of my own. People have mentioned William Burroughs - I find the argument that just because he was ok and survived therefore it'll ok for me to do it an extremely selective viewing of the reality of the drugs world. Plus have you actually read any of his works - its not exactly an advert for the positive effects of drugs. Plus murdering your wife in a drug and booze induced miasma isn't exactly a glowing endorsement. Legalize it, purify it and get rid of the problem - I'm afraid I don't really believe that. Far more people will end up taking the stuff if its cheap and clean. People go on about how diamorphine doesn't harm a person if taken properly. Sorry I think that is wrong on multiple levels - the addiction does have real physical effects - mainly due to habituation - you eventually need to take such high doses to get the high you used to have on a much lower dose you start destroying your liver and endocrine system. Plus even before you get there the motiviation to be a positive, productive member of society is replaced by the addiction. I don't want a society full of drugged out do nothings, but on cheap clean drugs. China in the 18th century was pretty much like that - smoked opimum is pretty difficult to adulterate. People weren't dying of bad smack - they just spent their entire lives in the opium den. Work, family, future, replaced by the dragon. Your brain is such an awesome, brilliantly sensitive device which is capable of producing such wonders that using such a deadening and numbing substance on it as a narcotic is to me a terribly sad thing to do. I'll educate my kids as hard as I can not to abuse their bodies and their brains - not with alchohol, cigarettes, grass or other types of drug. But at the end of the day only they can say no. I really hope they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Nice to see that the long absence from the forums hasn't reduced your sensitivity and compassion, Rog. The thing is that I’ve been victim of crime by junkies. Not only that but I’ve watched my niece go down the pan starting with cannabis through to heroin. I made it very clear to her and her parents that I wanted nothing to do with her until she stopped behaving like a whore and resumed a decent life style. So far she has not, and that is now someone that I see as a former member of my family, someone who I have utterly disowned. To me she is dead. I’ve also seen the effects of people taking so called recreational drugs and what they’ve done to them particularly at work. Those who take the filth be it the so called harmless stuff through to the downright disgusting opiates and worse may think it has no long term effect or that it doesn’t affect their work but they are WRONG. Yes, I do have what might be thought of as a cold and uncompassionate outlook on some things in life, but I don’t see that as a fault in the least little bit. Why be willing to ignore immorality in another? I certainly don’t, and more people should adopt the same stance. As long as the libertine and dissolute life of others is ignored or accommodated, or worse still accepted, the longer society will continue to degenerate. It really is time for the moral right to start to take back control for the sake of those who can’t or won’t control themselves and more importantly for our kids and especially for older people such as myself, for our grandchildren. It’s the same with being judgemental, another thing that I’ve been accused of, but there again if a person has good and decent values and morals as I do then I see absolutely nothing at all wrong in being judgmental where bad or immoral behaviour in others is concerned. Maybe it’s my age, now over 60, maybe it’s my upbringing, whatever. All I do know is that I can recognise scum and immorality when it’s there and have no problem in condemning it. If more people did the same then society would be much improved. Maybe those who live a slum-like life might start to feel they didn’t want to be openly condemned for being what they presently are and might try to do something about it and gain a little pride in themselves by not continuing to live like trash with the morality of feral dogs. Drugs? Letting junkies wallow in their own depravity to the depth that they wish and hopefully do the BIG drop out may be the best way to get rid of a problem that defeats all attempts at fighting it with the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Dear me, Rog seems to be mellowing in his old age..... Put some numbers around it. There are about 200,000 users of heroin and crack cocaine in the UK. And before the liberal tossers google away to knock the number down yes it is an estimate. It's like rags such as the Daily Mail sniping at the Home Office because they don't know how many illegal immigrants there are - errrrr, if they're illegals just how can you count them? About 75% of them support their habit by aquisitive crime i.e. they have to nick stuff. Each street habit costs around £30k per annum to support - although this number varies according to location, affluence, desperation, supply constraints etc etc so it's ball park. The going rate of return on stolen goods varies between 10% and 35% depending on what it is. So let's be conservative and give them an excellent return rate of 30% over a year. So the junkies in the UK have to steal 200,000 / 100 x 75 x 30,000 / 30 x 100 = £15,000,000,000 worth of stuff every year to fund their habit. As they can get treatment for their condition any time they like on the NHS do you think I'll miss any of the disgusting hopped-up little scrotes if they manage to top themselves? Think again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 You sure your sums are right there dude..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 You sure your sums are right there dude..... No. As I posted which somehow you seem to have missed : before the liberal tossers google away to knock the number down yes it is an estimate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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