Manxman In Exile Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I have been careful to avoid stating that a speed limit on its own would be any help (I am well aware that, for example, the P plate limits are widely breached as are many of the existing 30/40mph limits) - maybe I shouldn't have commented on this individual accident until details emerge at the inquest. The figures issued last year in an attempt to steer the speed limit debate indicated that the Manx fatality/serious injury rate was something like twice that of the UK. If you look at other Islands (Wight being of comparable size, population etc) they have, it would appear, a much lower rate than the UK as a whole. Wight's roads are comparable in many ways to Manx (though they don't have the mountain road equivalent), why then is their death rate so much lower - so much so that they thought that zero road death/year was achievable. If you have a road that is the common factor in many accidents then it is sensible to see what can be done to mitigate such accidents - road layout, better signage, phyisical speed restriction mechanisms are obvious suggestions. I was struck how in many of the French roads, which being straight are an obvious attraction to exceed the 90 kph limit, that physical barriers were inserted near junctions or other danger spots to act as speed restrictors + the use of different surfaces etc. It's probably got something to do with the fact that most drivers on the Isle if Wight are perfectly used to driving on motorways and do not consider 70mph to be particularly fast - hopping a ferry to the mainland being a normal part of getting around, indeed many people commute daily across from the IOW to work every day. In the Isle of Man, on the other hand, people who have little experience driving anywhere else think the mountain road is where they can demonstrate what driving is all about, and, in cars at least, manage to sustain a bit of speed for up to, ooh, one minute, if that. I have lost count (I never really started) of the number of mind numbingly boring hours I have spent droning along motorways and dual carriageways both here in England and abroad, at speeds usually in excess of 70mph (but below licence-losing speed) and where slowing down to 70 really does seem slow. Whenever I am on the Island, therefore, I see the mountain road for what it really is, a winding country road that anywhere else you would enjoy the scenery whilst waiting to get to a bigger road, and on to your destination. That could be why the IOW has a lower accident rate than the IOM, Frances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 To cross from Wight to the mainland costs well over £50 (it is one of the most expensive journies/mile of water crossed) but I'll grant you they are nearer motorways - however the same less hectic driving seems to be true of other Islands eg Shetland which has a comparable road to the Mountain rd (which also has a reputation as something of a racetrack but in my two weeks of fairly extensive usage of that road I didn't see as much overly fast driving as on the Mountain rd - the Shetland road has a 60mph limit which appears to be well heeded), the French non dual carriageways have a similar 90kph limit which though French overtaking habits are somewhat frightening (they like to mate with the car in front first) the speed limit does appear to be well obeyed (maybe the policing is vigourous). But my point is that elsewhere the mountain road ould be restricted to 60mph or less and if policing was not possible then physical speed restriction mechanisms would be employed (chicanes, kerbed lane seperators, surface modulation etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Yeah. Put a chicane on an unlit road. That'll reduce accidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 that is only one suggestion, small roundabouts are commonly used for this purpose - I assume most people drive with their lights on at a speed within their seeing/stopping distance - surface modulation (ie small traffic bumps as used on a number of UK roads (eg the generally fast A50) to force slowdowns before roundabouts) would be more effective -barely noticeable at 30mph or below but quite effective above this speed - you don't need many to effectively prevent excessive speed - but of course you cannot then treat the road as a race track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Minded to reply, but I don't think it is worthwhile, bearing in mind that most of the roundabouts are about easy access not slowing down traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumble Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 No amount of sleeping policemen, roundabouts, speed cameras, chicanes or speed limits would stop this kind of accident. Those of us who CAN drive safely at over 60mph shouldn't be limited by those who can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Those of us who CAN drive safely at over 60mph shouldn't be limited by those who can't. Somewhat misses the point about driving safely with regard to the prevailing conditions, though. Fair enough, on a dry straight road with visibility well ahead I'd agree that some people would be comfortable and safe driving a lot faster than others (Ballamodha springs to mind). However, most of the time there are risks around the next bend which, though they may not be generated by you will be more difficult for you to avoid at higher speeds and being able to attribute the blame to a less experienced driver will be of little consolation when you're in a hospital bed or a coffin. It's not a uniquely Manx problem by any means, but we have the saying 'traa dy liooar' for a reason I agree that we should avoid wasting money on humps, roundabouts, chicanes or whatever else in the interests of traffic calming: just throw the book at numpties who drive dangerously. Speeding is just one factor - I'd welcome a move towards videoing drivers at real danger points and letting the court decide if their actions are dangerous in all the circumstances. Setting up radar traps coming into speed restriction areas catches a lot of soft targets and so generates a lot of fines, but not necessarily safer roads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thriller Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I was up windy corner yesturday watching the cars and a Lad of about 18 was overtaking 5 cars in a crappy 1.1 Ford Fiesta, so even resicting them to a smaller cc wont help. He had a girl in the car and looked like he was showing off. Im a bad driver but i wouldnt overtake 5 cars even in my 2.0L Golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 As usual the speed debate is in full force. Speed in itself does not cause accidents, or kill. The incorrect use of speed for the conditions/location or type of vehicle is what kills. Sometimes speed is not even an issue, but of course that will not stop the pro speed limit guys from blaming it anyway. As always these incidents are tragic and my thoughts go out to his family and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I was up windy corner yesturday watching the cars and a Lad of about 18 was overtaking 5 cars in a crappy 1.1 Ford Fiesta, so even resicting them to a smaller cc wont help. He had a girl in the car and looked like he was showing off. Im a bad driver but i wouldnt overtake 5 cars even in my 2.0L Golf. A Lotus Elise decided to overtake us and about 3 other cars at the start of the Hairpin!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Stupid decisions are the core problem that no numbers of road furniture, speed limits etc are likely to help with. That example of the lad trying to do the mad dangerous overtake maneuver in his Fiesta is a case in point - stupidity is rife on our roads. The current driving test does not stress enough the responsibility required to drive, nor does it properly cover skid control and assessing dangerous road or human conditions (tiredness, hunger, hangovers etc). Why not have a skid pan up at Jurby airfield and hold advanced driving schools? Why not make it compulsory for all new drivers and give tax breaks to people who hold an advanced driving license? And also - why do parents buy such inappropriate first cars for their feckless offspring to muller themselves in? When I was 17 you usually expected to be going about in a slow and steady rustbucket for a couple of years until you knew what you were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Why not have a skid pan up at Jurby airfield and hold advanced driving schools? One of these would be good training. I've had a go on one and it simulates skidding well even at low speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 For Heaven’s sake, give the speed/young drivers/capability debates a rest, why don’t you? Someone has died here. He was too young to die, whatever the cause. It isn’t just yet another thread or topic for debate as to the pros and cons of speed restrictions, engine capacities etc . It’s real life and death stuff. His family, friends and workmates are hurting and missing him. It isn’t just yet another thread or topic for debate as to the pros and cons of speed restrictions, engine capacities etc . It’s real life and death stuff. Can’t you just leave this alone and start a thread elsewhere to discuss speed problems, road signs, young drivers et al? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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