Roger Smelly Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Well this is from manx radio website The Manx National Farmers' Union is cautiously welcoming the Treasury Minister's budget announcement of a large cash injection. Allan Bell proposes to transfer £5 million for a new "Agricultural Development Fund", which he says will help the Agriculture Department reshape the Island's farming industry. MNFU president, Howard Quayle, hopes the money will help farmers modernise and adapt; invest in developing new, more profitable markets; and get a fairer price for their produce. He sees it as a good starting point for changes which will be required within the industry Farmers get enough money as it is with out giving them more. We already pay for local produce that is 50% more than you pay in the UK but giving them more money for land rovers and tractors is unreal. What industry do you know that can go cap in hand and get free money to operate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Though of course Manx agriculture is about far more than that. Our farmers protect and maintain the countryside, and if the likes of Tesco and other supermarkets import cheaper veg and meat and locally produced stuff won't sell, what then for farmers and their land? If farmland becomes unused, surely it will eventually be put up for sale and even re-zoned. I don't agree with financial support for failing industries, and it's not a failing industry - yet. But don't forget that these guys, if they want to build up an export market, will need to ship their goods to the mainland and then transport it around the UK and Europe (double handling). I think grants such as this make it a little more of a level playing field, especially considering the extra shipping costs and refrigeration units etc. The 'Freedom to Flourish' brand won't do much for farming on the island - they need new branding (e.g. organic produce) and salespeople to get out there and make more contacts. All this costs a lot of money to set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Balls to this subsidy. How come farmers get subsidised by low income wage slaves? If I can't make money doing what I do, I have to quit. For some reason farmers are an exception to this rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynsheltyn Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Balls to this subsidy. How come farmers get subsidised by low income wage slaves? If I can't make money doing what I do, I have to quit. For some reason farmers are an exception to this rule It's a much wider issue than "I WANT IT CHEAP!" The total economy of the Isle of Man depends upon local businesses and local industry. Spend your money in Tesco or in M&S or in purchasing goods over the internet and most of that money is shipped out and lost to the Island. Supporting local industry and buying local is extremely important because the GNP then increases. The Manx economy is strong, but allowing agriculture (or any local industry) to decline is a road of no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Say that to the local millionares who can afford to buy local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 The 'Freedom to Flourish' brand won't do much for farming on the island How about 'Freedom To Fertilise' instead!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Balls to this subsidy. How come farmers get subsidised by low income wage slaves? If I can't make money doing what I do, I have to quit. For some reason farmers are an exception to this rule It's a much wider issue than "I WANT IT CHEAP!" The total economy of the Isle of Man depends upon local businesses and local industry. Spend your money in Tesco or in M&S or in purchasing goods over the internet and most of that money is shipped out and lost to the Island. Supporting local industry and buying local is extremely important because the GNP then increases. The Manx economy is strong, but allowing agriculture (or any local industry) to decline is a road of no return. Rubbish. Why should low income wage earners support landowners who could not otherwise make a living. Balls to them. If I am a joiner, and I can't make money doing what I do, I don't get the government to fix prices for carpentry at a level much higher than would otherwise be the case. It IS possible for farmers to make money without subsidy - the Kiwis and Aussies do. So let the ones who can take over the farms of the ones who can't. It's just twaddle to think that we all somehow benefit by allowing farmers to sell stuff for more than they should. FARMERS benefit. Nobody else does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynsheltyn Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 It's just twaddle to think that we all somehow benefit by allowing farmers to sell stuff for more than they should. FARMERS benefit. Nobody else does Whether or not the goods are over-priced is a different argument. If agriculture is supported then there could be subsidies - I don't know the details - but whatever form this support takes, let's say 'the farmer' buys a new tractor. A local supplier sells him the tractor, that supplier employs local people who are paid from the profits of the sale. The tractor allows greater productivity of fresh produce, which requires the purchase of fertilisers from a local supplier who etc..., the fresh produce is sold to local stores which gives the farmer a profit so that he can employ people and so that he can go to local stores to buy other goods. The local store sells the fresh produce and makes a profit to employ local people, who spend their wages on other goods in other local stores, who use the profit to employ... etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skig Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 UK farmers get big handouts from Europe. We are not in the EEC and so local farmers do not benefit and are at a disadvantage to the UK farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Well i know for a fact some farmers used the money for new roofs for barns that 4 or 5 years later got converted into holiday lets. Nothing wrong with making money, but on a island that pays more for the local produce and travels less miles to the shop than the UK how is it we are paying more ? If a self employed person cannot make money doing what they do what happens ? Usually they have to GET A JOB not run the the government to make it all better. What about the poor fisherman he don't get hardly anything compared to the farmers. You can talk for hours about shopping local but nowadays people don't like to get ripped off. Next you will be saying its because its organic lol and we all know there isnt one organic farm on the island. Think i might rent myself a farm looks like a good swindle Milk in the uk 25p milk in the isle of man nearly 60p ? 1/2 kilo of steak mince in uk £2.20 1/2 of kilo steak mince in the isle of man £5.50 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 "let's say 'the farmer' buys a new tractor" What's to make him buy local? Perhaps we could provide subsidies to lawyers and accountants as well. After all, they buy paper from local suppliers, and use Manx Telecom phone lines. The only possible argument that I can see for it is that agriculture is somehow different to any other trade. I don't agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Rubbish. Why should low income wage earners support landowners who could not otherwise make a living. Balls to them. If I am a joiner, and I can't make money doing what I do, I don't get the government to fix prices for carpentry at a level much higher than would otherwise be the case. It IS possible for farmers to make money without subsidy - the Kiwis and Aussies do. So let the ones who can take over the farms of the ones who can't. It's just twaddle to think that we all somehow benefit by allowing farmers to sell stuff for more than they should. FARMERS benefit. Nobody else does Not quite true, the Manx government currently does protect joiners and many other trades, through both the work permit system and the training schemes (and limited number of training placements) on offer. There are few if any joiners on the dole queue. New Zealand's farmers were previously subsidised by up to 40% of their income when their subsidies were abolished. In the three years after, 800 NZ farms went bust (1%) and many struggled and land prices plummeted - which on an island the size of the Isle of Man - several farmers going bust could potentially have a significant effect on the whole economy, including probably even the price of your house and would eventually impact inflation. As others have mentioned, UK and European farmers are already subsidised. A £5m 'competition grant' will not go far in the big scheme of things and IOM farmers will have to rely mostly on their wits anyway. If agriculture represents 1% of island GDP = £15m, then if managed properly over 5 years this fund could provide substantial pay-offs for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I'll take my chances on the price of my house. It's a market distortion and there's no reason for it. The fact that UK and European farmers are subsidised doesn't make much difference to me - if they subsidise lawyers, should we? I'm not a huge fan of how restrictive the work permit system is either, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 What about the poor fisherman he don't get hardly anything compared to the farmers. I have to pick you up there, The fishing industry also get cuts, but not in tax and VAT, it is in what they are allowed to take from the sea. Got to leave it there for the Spanish and Japanese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Well i know for a fact some farmers used the money for new roofs for barns that 4 or 5 years later got converted into holiday lets. Nothing wrong with making money, but on a island that pays more for the local produce and travels less miles to the shop than the UK how is it we are paying more ? If a self employed person cannot make money doing what they do what happens ? Usually they have to GET A JOB not run the the government to make it all better. What about the poor fisherman he don't get hardly anything compared to the farmers. You can talk for hours about shopping local but nowadays people don't like to get ripped off. Next you will be saying its because its organic lol and we all know there isnt one organic farm on the island. Think i might rent myself a farm looks like a good swindle Milk in the uk 25p milk in the isle of man nearly 60p ? 1/2 kilo of steak mince in uk £2.20 1/2 of kilo steak mince in the isle of man £5.50 ? We also pay twice as much for a loaf of bread - so how does the farming subsidy help us there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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