Smoking Ban - The Isle Of Man

[VinnieK]

There perhaps could have been a compromise a few years ago, with smoking being banished from restaurants and pubs where food is served, but because the majority of smokers were so strident about their "rights" to be able to smoke wherever they damn well wanted to when they were out eating or drinking, the opinions of the non-smokers became that much more polarised as well.

 

This suggests that smokers somehow blocked this option, but if the government can now ignore such opposition with regards to a total smoking ban, why can't (or why shouldn't) they force through the compromise you suggest (which I agree with) instead?

 

Although blaming the total ban (and the polarisation of the debate) on smokers' own intransigence makes for a neat little moral lesson, the fact is that such a compromise was proposed and was nearly instantly deemed unworkable, being opposed from the very start by groups campaigning for a total ban (who spoke out the instant that the white paper recommending such a limited ban was published), health professionals, and some trade unions (who introduced early on the argument that non-smoking employees in an established that was exempt from such a ban were being treated unfairly).

 

I agree that the pro-smoking argument about civil liberties is at best pretty weak, but to suggest that we're in this situation now because of their refusal to back down, or that they are responsible for the polarization of the debate (both sides must accept the blame in equal measure) is just plain wrong.

[Lonan3]

Firstly, let me say that I am a smoker. Secondly, I am certainly not proud of that fact.

In theory, however, I ought to be part of the final generation to become addicted to tobacco - just about the last generation that wasn't aware of the health issues that were posed by smoking. Possibly the last who should have been influenced by the advertising of it that they saw on the cinema screen and, later, on television. Indeed, cigarette smoking was still considered a social accomplishment - at least to some degree. (Cigars were for the really affluent and chewing-tobacco the resort of the poor) - although those are, of necessity, generalisations).

Once the health risks were known, however, those who had already become addicted made the same excuses that some still make today - 'case not proven,' 'its relaxing,' etc., etc. I know this, because I make those same excuses myself.

I am, however, apalled that the younger generation is still taking up the habit at such a rate. I really feel that tobacco products should, once the true facts about them were known, have been totally banned.

Instead, we have had half-hearted measures - banning TV advertising of cigarettes then, later, of cigars; then banning cinema advertising, then sports sponsorship by tobacco companies and so on. Now, the latest of these mealy-mouthed measures is the banning in public places.

The government wants to be seen to be concerned about health matters but, being terrified at the loss of revenue, can only introduce partial measures instead of the one it should have introduced at least 20 years ago. Instead, they find a measure that will divide opinion sufficiently for there to be little or no backlash from either camp - they're too busy arguing with one another.

Ultimately, there will be sufficient holes in the legislation (as there is any) that people will find ways or places where they will be able to slowly kill themselves with tobacco smoke.

[Lost Login]

I often read that the Government does not ban smoking totally because it does not want o loose the revenue. That may be true but equally big considerations are firstly it would be very difficult to introduce and enforce. If it was banned in the Island how wuld you stop importation from the UK and if banned in the UK how would you stop imporation from the rest of Europe. Most other things that are banned are generally banned in many jurisdictions and not freely and legally available across a near border.

 

Secondly if that was summountable do you believe any political party in the UK or a majority of MHK's in the IoM would get elected on such a platform. On a sniff of a chance. I am not saying a government would wish to ban smoking anyway but realistically it is a complete non starter as an policy so you will never see it advicated by a main party.

 

I agree about the issue to mention about teenagers and smoking as it does appear to be on the rise and especially amongst groups of young women on a night out. If one of the results of the ban is it makes it more socially uncool for these to be tempted to start smoking then I thhink that is a good thing

 

I really feel that tobacco products should, once the true facts about them were known, have been totally banned.

Instead, we have had half-hearted measures - banning TV advertising of cigarettes then, later, of cigars; then banning cinema advertising, then sports sponsorship by tobacco companies and so on. Now, the latest of these mealy-mouthed measures is the banning in public places.

The government wants to be seen to be concerned about health matters but, being terrified at the loss of revenue, can only introduce partial measures instead of the one it should have introduced at least 20 years ago.

[germann]

Firstly, let me say that I am a smoker. Secondly, I am certainly not proud of that fact.

 

Then why don't you give up? It isn't that hard- and all the NRT that you need is free on the NHS in the IoM

[Heathen]

It's coming and it can't happen soon enough for me.

 

Bring it in tomorrow for me. Some pissed-up prick burnt me twice tonight with his nonchalant waving about of his cancer stick. It wasn't twice within a minute or two,it was about an hour apart and yes I told the absolute dickhead where to go. Arsehole.

[bilbo]

I fucking hate smoking and cannot wait until the ban is in place. Its all down to having parents who smoked, suffocating me their own child with their smoke. The suffering and discomfort I remember feeling. From an early age the seed was sown I would NEVER smoke and as I grew up and became more aware of things it was enforced by the realisation that people who smoke must be stupid, why would some one want to do that and why not realise or care what they are doing to other people. (Yes I realise smoking does not mean you are stupid but I like saying it)

[Gladys]

Then, there are times when you have cared for your children and given them the best, brought them up with values and respect, sacrificed the various bits that your friends had in order to do the best by your kids, that you would just hope the little shits would return that with a little care and respect and not flay them on a forum.

[Grumble]

Yeah, but noting the language Bilbo uses, his/her parents can't be terribly proud to start off with.

 

Sorry Gladys - what I meant to say is "you're a smoker so you're bound to say that". Not because I believe it, but that's what the Tobacco Intolerants' usual riposte is.

 

As for being the child of a smoker, my old man used to smoke Capstan Full Strength and I HATED the smell when I was a kid - especially in the car. Surprised I ever started really, but I did and now I have to suffer the slings and arrows of people like Bilbo.

 

Funny - went to Tesco earlier and saw the steam train pulling out. Now THAT (along with the buses and the seacats) makes some serious black smoke - but I don't see the intolerants picketing on the platform.

[Gladys]

Yeah, but noting the language Bilbo uses, his/her parents can't be terribly proud to start off with.

 

Probably right.

 

(Just re-read my post and have to say the rant is evident, at the cost of good English, but the sentiment remains.)

[Chinahand]

Yeah, but noting the language Bilbo uses, his/her parents can't be terribly proud to start off with.

 

Probably right.

 

(Just re-read my post and have to say the rant is evident, at the cost of good English, but the sentiment remains.)

But reading Bilbo's post - do you totally disagree with his major point - once you take out the swearing - that smoking is stupid?

[bilbo]

I am myself a proud parent and this is one of the reasons for my original post, I could not imagine unnecessarily subjecting my children to the smoke of a cancer causing cigarette. I guess times are changing for the better and maybe in the past things like this have happened due to lack a of knowledge and ignorance although still with a touch of stupidity.

 

Should one of my children one day swear, I really don't think that will stop me from being proud. Should they start smoking I shall be very disappointed.

[iom_cb]

I think that the fact the IOM will be last does not portray the right image.

 

The isle of man has an extraordinary advantage in being able to enact laws on a small scale ... we should be leading the way on so many issues but seem to fail to do so.

 

It would help our image as well ... because if we had been the first place to ban smoking it would have made national news, the isle of man could be a beacon for change and progress.

[Gladys]

Couldn't agree more China. Unfortunately, when the likes of me and Grumble started smoking it was actually considered (and portrayed as such on TV, film etc.) as quite cool and definitely did not have the social stigma and intolerance it now has. Although, I think that it still has a degree of cool attached to it by young people, regrettably.

 

I am not going to enter into the smoking debate for the very reasons I quoted Churchill above, but I felt that Bilbo's post needed a reply.

[chufty]

The problem with todays Pubs is that they are all open plan, years ago they all used to have seperate rooms often enough called smoke rooms. Maybe if the Pub owners put a little thought into the matter and create a smoke room all sides could be kept happy.

[Albert Tatlock]

I think that the fact the IOM will be last does not portray the right image.

 

The isle of man has an extraordinary advantage in being able to enact laws on a small scale ... we should be leading the way on so many issues but seem to fail to do so.

 

It would help our image as well ... because if we had been the first place to ban smoking it would have made national news, the isle of man could be a beacon for change and progress.

You have to remember that sometimes many of us don't actually want to be 'like you'. In fact to most of us, 'leading the way' often means being led by the nose by one lobby group - or one group of self-appointed 'know-it-alls' - after another. The trouble is that people like you, who live in 'my little dream world', just never listen to others. I'll put it down to your inexperience of life - but my experience is that you should stick that approach up your ar*e.

 

Going for a compromise (i.e. some smoking pubs); such as is are available in many other parts of Europe; would have demonstrated far better leadership and liberal democracy - rather than just the usual 'cut and paste' approach to legislation - and would have been truly 'leading the way'. It also misses a golden opportunity for encouraging more visitors to use such facilities, away from 50 weeks a year of persecution in the rest of the UK. Above all it would provide a way of not alienting a third of the islands population.

 

I shall mostly be working across Europe from September, partly I admit, to get away from the UK and all the other mealy mouthed 'I'll live-forever' people like you, who are responsible for starting to turn the UK (with the island starting to follow very closely) into a police state, taxing the arse off people through failed initiative after failed initiative, whilst generating the highest ever number of UK born emmigrants.

 

You vote 'Lemming' if you want to, just don't expect me or other people to always agree with you.