Lonan3 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Former Speaker of the House of Keys, Victor Kneale, has died at the age of 89. Manx Radio Link You may not have agreed with all of his opinions, but they were always genuinely and honestly held. Manx politics will be much poorer for his passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsbot Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 The former speaker of the House of Keys, Victor Kneale CBE, dies at the age of 89. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6540663.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 One of his opinions was that the politics of the Isle of Man was corrupt! This is what he told me. R.I.P. Victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 One of his opinions was that the politics of the Isle of Man was corrupt! This is what he told me. R.I.P. Victor yet he intensely disliked Peter Karran and supped with the alleged corrupt ones at the Executive Council and Council of Ministers table By the way the memoriam by David Callister on the MR site is incorrect. Victor was not the first MLC to seek a return to the Keys. I believe that was CC McFee in the 1960's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 He would have been a better politician if he had been less partisan. An intense dislike of others is something which I do not consider to be the best way forward. However he did not discuss specific names with me. If he had I would not have been interested as hearsay and gossip is highly unreliable. But he did want decency, honesty and transparency which I believe all of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisner Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 By the way the memoriam by David Callister on the MR site is incorrect. Victor was not the first MLC to seek a return to the Keys. I believe that was CC McFee in the 1960's It is significant that Victor Kneale's attempt at a return to the Keys was successful when he resigned from the Legislative Council. He even topped poll in Douglas West. Cecil McFee was elected to the Legislative Council on 30th October 1962. He remained there until 1970 when he made an attempt to become MHK again in Rushen. He didn't succeed and the three sitting Candidates remained. (Incidentally the other unsuccessful candidate was one Noel Cringle). There have been other such attempts but unlike Victor Kneale's, they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodolite Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 One of his opinions was that the politics of the Isle of Man was corrupt! This is what he told me. R.I.P. Victor yet he intensely disliked Peter Karran and supped with the alleged corrupt ones at the Executive Council and Council of Ministers table There are many reasons why Victor Kneale may have disliked Peter Karran, but one of the reasons may well be why some other MHKs also seem to dislike Peter Karran, and that is that none of them are capable of achieving anything like the number of votes - and across Island popularity - in a general election that Peter Karran achieves. It must make them all smart like fuck when they realise the huge support Peter has and it should rather make them feel humbled, but politicans' inflated egos do not allow for humility it seems. That said and back on topic, Victor Kneale contributed much to Island politics. I also very much like his artwork and was extremely disappointed to see that three of his works had been purchased at the Isle of Man Art Society Exhibition on the first day before I managed to get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 One of his opinions was that the politics of the Isle of Man was corrupt! This is what he told me. R.I.P. Victor yet he intensely disliked Peter Karran and supped with the alleged corrupt ones at the Executive Council and Council of Ministers table There are many reasons why Victor Kneale may have disliked Peter Karran, but one of the reasons may well be why some other MHKs also seem to dislike Peter Karran, and that is that none of them are capable of achieving anything like the number of votes - and across Island popularity - in a general election that Peter Karran achieves. It must make them all smart like fuck when they realise the huge support Peter has and it should rather make them feel humbled, but politicans' inflated egos do not allow for humility it seems. They say that 'you can always tell the quality of a leader by the quality of the people that follow him'. 'Ya-boo' politics and asking stupid questions doesn't get any of us anywhere. Can you name anything stunning that Peter Karren or any of them have done recently? How many people have seen one of them at the door since the election - and are likely to see them before the next election? It's all pretty facile, and we are still going on - nearly 20 years after Victor Kneale's resignation on the same topic - i.e. the lack of elections for LegCo. We all know they won't change it - despite it being one of the major topics and of serious concern to the majority of people at every election I can remember. I honestly believe that most of them don't give a stuff about Joe Public - yet we voted most of them back in again. We are just playing at politics here - and my cat could do a better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 I actually know why he disliked Peter He blamed Peter for the death of his beloved PR system Peter introduced an amendment which gave people the right to plump at tghe second PR election, ie to vote for only one candidate in a multi saet constituencry. In Victors pure STV system, plumping was avoiding the issue, it was wrong. You had to vote for at least as many candidates as therte were seats to fill. Nothing more or less. And in strict theoretical terms Victor was right PR and STV wise, but I think Peter was right in terms of pragmatic touchy feely politics where he did not want to force someone not to vote at all rather than have to vote for soemone he or she did not want. Collision of two very differentl principles I thought Edgar Mann eventually got back in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Wow. Something I agree with Peter Karran on! I'm shocked.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodolite Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I thought Edgar Mann eventually got back in? Yes eventually but significantly, not at the election he contested after his resignation. Edgar Man was elected to the Legislative Council in March 1985 from his seat in Garff. (Victor Kneale's brother, James, took the vacant seat unopposed). Edgar Mann resigned his seat in Leg. Co. the following year to contest back his seat in the Keys at the General Election. Up to that point there had been 2 seats in Garff, the other held by Charles Kerruish. At the 1986 election however, Garff became a single seat constituency and Edgar Mann went in for a head-to-head contest for the single seat against Charles Kerruish, and was beaten. Edgar Mann was returned to the House of Keys at Garff in September 1990 in a by-election after Charles Kerruish was elevated to President of Tynwald. Edgar Mann kept his seat in the Keys until March 1995 when he was returned to the Legislative Council. He resigned his seat there mid term in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodolite Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 It's all pretty facile, and we are still going on - nearly 20 years after Victor Kneale's resignation on the same topic He resigned because of this ?? Regarding the comments Albert made about Peter Karran, at the end of the day (!) PK has more support than anyone in Tywnwald. An indisputable fact. To suggest all those people are wrong, stupid or whatever, for voting for him (in a democracy) is pompous in the extreme. That is why politicians meed to bne careful in their criticism of him as they are effectively criticising the people who put him there. I believe that in Tynwald there is a member of Leg Co who realises this but there is nothing to stop here putting on a face as if she is sucking a lemon every time Peter Karran speaks. I reckon she has been doing it that much of late the face has kept the expression permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 It's hard to dispute Peter Karran's popularity, but I would agree that a lot of this is due to the fact that it is easier to sit and snipe at the government than actually get things done yourself. Politics generally is the art of compromise, and never more so than when a politician becomes a minister. Peter can always appear to be principled and uncompromising, and that's part of his appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 There have been other such attempts but unlike Victor Kneale's, they failed. What Dominic Delaney's return to the Keys in 2005 after being an MLC? Sorry but edited to say that although I didn't always agree with his views, I thought Victor Kneale an honest and deeply knowledgeable politician, and I think that Manx politics benefitted from his involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Like Victor, his brother James was an extremely honourable man. He agreed to fill the vacancy left by Edgar Mann's 'elevation' to Legco in 1985 and was elected unopposed. He was, however, extremely uncomfortable about it and was glad to stand down at the General Election the following year. I was fortunate enough to have many conversations with him on the subject of local politics and, if you think Victor was critical of them, you should have heard what his brother had to say! He was a lovely man of whom I was very proud to be considered a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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