[BBC News] One-way plan decided for TT road

[Lost Login]

Fair enough and I can understand your thoughts which I fully respect. As you can see from my postings my main beef is inconsistency and there are many who appear to be more concerned that somebody tarnishes the image of the TT by dare mentioning the accidents etc rather that the accidents etc themselves

 

Well heres a shocker i used to be a supporter of the event but since leaving the Island and looking at it from a different point of view i no longer believe that there is a place for an event that is so inherently dangerous.But then again as long as the event is still running then every effort should be made to make it as safe as possible for competitors and specators alike.

[Cambon]

What does making the road one way outside race periods have to do with the sport of motorcycle racing and the TT?

 

If or when the TT is stopped because it is too dangerous it will not be because of spectators and wannabes, it will be because the sport is too dangerous. This is where Albert Tatlock should join in, civil liberties, etc. I like watching Bode Millar and Benny Raich do their stuff on the piste. I like to emulate them (when I get the chance) and go as fast as I can just to see if I can do it. I have injured myself several times by crashing on the ski slopes. On two occasions (thinking back) I could have died as a result. Many people die every year skiing, some emulating their heros, but does that mean that the sport of ski racing should be stopped?

[Frances]

I suspect the death rate for TT competitors is around 1% (based on my memory of deaths over the last few years) but maybe someone has more accurate figures.

The TT impacts on other road deaths and injuries - obviously on the wannabees (why else make the mountain section one way - if there is a serious pileup I can immagine the headlines aswithout adequate policing the IoM Gov is complicit in encouraging dangerous speeds) , on youngsters who seeing a public road used as a racetrack are irresistably tempted to try it out and on the rest of us because road maintainence is skimped elsewhere and sections comprising the TT cannot be brought upto date with sensible physical constraints on driver stupidity.

[Lost Login]

I am not aware that anybody who might be arguing that the TT should not be run due to safety is arguing that the all motorbike racing is stopped.

 

In many sports each year people die and get seriously injured. Hopefully each event is looked at and is learnt from to make the event and sport safer. Look how they have learnt from succesive accidents in Motorracing to make the cars safer and now despite very horrendous accidents it is rare to see serious injurt let alone death. In some sports in addition to changes in rules and equioment to make the event safer as time has progressed courses have been changed to make them safer to meet modern expectations or if that is not possible then unfortunately dropped.

 

In the past there were many sports where death and serious injury was associated on a regular occasion with a sport. Forty years ago in Motor Racing there would not have been undue shock if there was a fatality. Today it is or would be a huge surprise due to advances which make it safer. The TT by its nature has been less able to adapt and move on at the same pace and probably is now not appreciately safer than it was say 20 years ago and will not be in 20 years time. There are few other events that this is also the case with.

 

Now the TT is possibly one of the very few sports events in the world today that expects fatalities as part of it and there is not a huge shock when it happens. In fact it may be the only event apart from other road races. There might be shock who it is or where it happened but not that there is a fatality.

Unfortunately these is little that can be done due to the nature of the course and your view on it is dependent on your view on what is acceptable in terms of appreciating and accepting risk etc.

 

If you want the TT to continue when the debate is raised then that is the risk and issue that needs to be addressed. It is not that the TT which is on for two weeks a year and has a few hundred participants if that casuses less fatalities than skiing over a year when in comparison there are millions every week skiing.

 

 

 

Many people die every year skiing, some emulating their heros, but does that mean that the sport of ski racing should be stopped?

[Hudu]

Well heres a shocker i used to be a supporter of the event

 

Not that much of a shocker - it was the only time of year that your bleached blonde mullet didnt stand out like the balls on a bulldog.

[girl89]

If the minority of idiots that live on the rock insist on going the opposite way across the mountain during TT week then there will be head on accidents.Therefore the DOT has done the right thing in removing there right to do so.

 

It's a ROAD. Of course people are going to be using both sides of it. I personally don't think that residents should be forced to use a different route just because of the stupid motorists who can't stick to their side of the road.

 

Yeah fair enough it's TT, but it doesn't make the line in the middle that divides the traffic disappear!

 

And you refer to the minority that do drive the opposite way as 'idiots'. You have that wrong, it's the motorists who drive stupidly all over the road that are idiots.

[Frances]

What will be the status of the junctions to/from Sulby glen + the Sartfell roads - both popular tourist roads - as also the Creg ny bar back road

[Albert Tatlock]

IMO, whether people like the TT or not, the fact is that it is on. We have invited many thousands of people over to the island as our guests, with the full knowledge and experience that many of them enjoy riding around the course - many sensibly, and some not so sensibly. The majority of visitors have little or no previous experience of the roads on the island, and we have a duty of care for both types of rider. The police cannot be present every few yards around the course - there is simply not enough of them.

 

This year there will be far more bikes (and vans and cars and even trucks) than usual, which means bikes will be overtaking not only cars and vans and trucks - but other bikes too - and the traffic speed along the mountain will vary substantially. On the narrow roads on the island it is very difficult to overtake without going over the white line even if you are just overtaking another bike.

 

The volume of traffic and variation in speeds along the mountain will all have an effect on the probability of an accident. If you add into that traffic coming the other way, then the probability of an accident gets very high. If the road is two way - it is not only locals that drive to Ramsey via the mountain road in TT week, it is also visiting cars, vans, trucks and bike riders who are not generally familiar with our roads, and who are therefore much more likely (in reality) to venture across the white lines - increasing the probability of an accident to practically a certainty.

 

I don't think the mountain will be as much of a racetrack as people think, as every few miles there will be coppers about, and no doubt once again cones placed in strategic places.

 

If you don't understand that this is why they are making the mountain one way - then just be glad that there are people on the island who do understand why - and that instead of you regretting you ended up in a hospital bed or killing someone yourself 'because of the principle' - that some miserable b*****d chose to direct you along the coast road instead - for a very good reason in this case.

[Lost Login]

I like many understand all that. But those arguments apply to many other parts of the TT. Do you really believe the bikers will only be doing 40mph on the rest of the course. No they will be going for it all the way around! Driving in from Ramsey via Kirk Michael I think will be fairly interesting to say the least.

 

If they want to make the mountain course a race way for the two weeks then fine get on with it but say so. If safety was the priority then they would have brought in a load of other measures but that might have hindered the enjoyment of the bikers. What we are left with is something that is half cock that some of us believe, maybe incorrectly, that whilst it will prevent head on crashes on the mountain it will also potentially increase other serious accidents as it is used as a race track. Also if head ons are such a concern what are they doing to stop those as the bikers race round the rest of the circuit.

 

There is no right and wrong answer in this and ultimately we all hope that no serious incidents arise but in my opinion if we want safety whether for two way or one way taffic then like anything at a cost it is possible. You could have speed limits of 50mph with police cars circulating a mile apart, unmarked police cars, speed traps etc. Very few would be in favour of this as it would prevent people being able to blast over the mountain but to me it indicates what has had the priority in this matter

 

 

 

 

IMO, whether people like the TT or not, the fact is that it is on. We have invited many thousands of people over to the island as our guests, with the full knowledge and experience that many of them enjoy riding around the course - many sensibly, and some not so sensibly. The majority of visitors have little or no previous experience of the roads on the island, and we have a duty of care for both types of rider. The police cannot be present every few yards around the course - there is simply not enough of them.

 

This year there will be far more bikes (and vans and cars and even trucks) than usual, which means bikes will be overtaking not only cars and vans and trucks - but other bikes too - and the traffic speed along the mountain will vary substantially. On the narrow roads on the island it is very difficult to overtake without going over the white line even if you are just overtaking another bike.

 

The volume of traffic and variation in speeds along the mountain will all have an effect on the probability of an accident. If you add into that traffic coming the other way, then the probability of an accident gets very high. If the road is two way - it is not only locals that drive to Ramsey via the mountain road in TT week, it is also visiting cars, vans, trucks and bike riders who are not generally familiar with our roads, and who are therefore much more likely (in reality) to venture across the white lines - increasing the probability of an accident to practically a certainty.

 

I don't think the mountain will be as much of a racetrack as people think, as every few miles there will be coppers about, and no doubt once again cones placed in strategic places.

 

If you don't understand that this is why they are making the mountain one way - then just be glad that there are people on the island who do understand why - and that instead of you regretting you ended up in a hospital bed or killing someone yourself 'because of the principle' - that some miserable b*****d chose to direct you along the coast road instead - for a very good reason in this case.

[Roger Smelly]

The reason for this measure is because most of the smashes on the island on TT are head on's.

 

If this saves one life then i am for it.

 

Scared of the unknown are we ?

 

This is going to be the best TT for years and i cannot wait, instead of moaning look at the big picture.

 

Not every biker goes mad come TT biking is more a lifestyle and like every sport or hobbie you get the odd prat.

[Tugger]

It does seem to me as though there are two competing priorities (safety and the hope that bikers will come over and enjoy themselves by riding fast on the mountain road), and that this is some sort of compromise.

[Lost Login]

If as you say most of the crashes in the TT are head on I am surprised but if it is the case why are they not taking steps on the rest of the course or are head ons only a problem on the mountain?

 

If it saves one life you are for it as I am sure are the majority of us. It is just than some of us have our doubts. We believe any savings in head ons may be offset by additional ones treating the moutain road as a race track. Who is right is conjecture.

 

Scrapping the TT and Manx Grand Prix would also save save X lives per year. Would you be in favour of that as well then? You may be but many would not be. The whole thing as I have said previous just a massive compromise with any safety considerations being second to not spoiling it for the visiting fans however hopefully I am proved wrong.

 

That is the end of discussion on the subject from me as ultimately I have said several times anything I have to say and we will only know if this was succesful in two months time.

 

The reason for this measure is because most of the smashes on the island on TT are head on's.

 

If this saves one life then i am for it.

 

Scared of the unknown are we ?

 

This is going to be the best TT for years and i cannot wait, instead of moaning look at the big picture.

 

Not every biker goes mad come TT biking is more a lifestyle and like every sport or hobbie you get the odd prat.

[Lost Login]

Totally agree which is partly my point. How far do you go to compromise safety?

 

It does seem to me as though there are two competing priorities (safety and the hope that bikers will come over and enjoy themselves by riding fast on the mountain road), and that this is some sort of compromise.

[Albert Tatlock]

I like many understand all that. But those arguments apply to many other parts of the TT. Do you really believe the bikers will only be doing 40mph on the rest of the course. No they will be going for it all the way around! Driving in from Ramsey via Kirk Michael I think will be fairly interesting to say the least.

Don't disagree. But it's near enough to the Pareto principle (80:20 rule) i.e. around 60% of TT fatacs happen on 30% of the course (the mountain road). See fatac map. The mountain section can be easily made one-way as it has few adjoining roads - thus helping to minimise 60% of accidents and allowing coppers to be freed up to cover other areas and help slow down the traffic in the more built up areas.

 

IMO, people in TT week tend to go fast on the mountain because they can see for miles ahead (whether a speed limit were to be introduced or not). In built up areas they go nowhere near as fast, but you are right that they need coppers in these other areas to slow them down. I'd rather see a copper flagging down and bollocking a motorcylist for speeding in Kirkmichael - than be unavailable because he is busy scraping another guy off the front of a van heading to Ramsey - 10 miles further around the course.

[wideload]

loving the anti-bike bais on this topic, what with there never having been any cockhead car drivers who had accidents during tt fortnight