When Were You Last On The Blob?

[MrsTrellisfromNorthWales]

Women civil servants in India have expressed shock at new appraisal rules which require them to reveal details of their menstrual cycles.

Under the new nationwide requirements, female officials also have to say when they last sought maternity leave.

 

Women civil servants say the questions are a gross invasion of privacy. One told the BBC she was "gobsmacked".

 

Annual appraisals and health checks are mandatory in India's civil service. The ministry was unavailable for comment.

 

But one of its most senior bureaucrats was quoted in the press as saying the new questions had been based on advice from health officials.

 

The questions at the root of the controversy are on page 58 of the new appraisal forms for the current year issued by the federal Ministry for Personnel, Public Grievances and Pensions.

 

Women officers must write down their "detailed menstrual history and history of LMP [last menstrual period] including date of last confinement [maternity leave]," the form says.

 

Women working in the civil service told the BBC the government had no need for this kind of personal information.

 

"I am completely shocked!" said Sharwari Gokhale, environment secretary in western Maharashtra state.

 

"I have absolutely no words to describe how I feel and I have no intention of telling them anything about my personal life.

 

"It's gob smacking."

 

Ms Gokhale said she had also served in the personnel department at the ministry which drafted the new forms and, while the health of officials was always a concern, asking such questions never crossed their minds.

 

Maharashtra's joint secretary for general administration, Seema Vyas, agreed that the new questions were uncalled for.

 

"Menstrual cycles are a natural phenomenon, they are not an aberration. One does not object to questions related to fitness levels - they are important as they can affect work.

 

"But there is no need for these details as this does not have any bearing on our work," she told the BBC.

 

"When we apply for maternity leave, we put in the appropriate application and the government already has those records so why ask again?"

 

She said she and her colleagues were thinking of writing a letter to the authorities protesting at the questions.

 

Despite repeated attempts, the BBC was unable to speak to the head of the personnel department, Satyanand Mishra.

 

The Hindustan Times newspaper quoted him as saying the questions were based on advice from the Ministry of Health.

 

"We sought the ministry's help to draw up a health-history format. I assume this will help evaluate the officer's fitness," he told the paper.

[Albert Tatlock]

Serves them right - especially when I think how many bleeding jobs they're nicking from the UK.

 

They should ring one of their numerous "who gives a monkey's" call centres about it.

[Pragmatopian]

"Menstrual cycles are a natural phenomenon, they are not an aberration. One does not object to questions related to fitness levels - they are important as they can affect work."

 

"But there is no need for these details as this does not have any bearing on our work," she told the BBC.

 

Would suspect menstrual cycles are more likely to have a bearing on their work than how many kms they can run.

[Gladys]

Why?

[Pragmatopian]

Why?

 

I submit some academic papers and articles for your consideration:

 

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jpa/21...rticle/-char/en

 

http://www.joem.org/pt/re/joem/abstract.00...07000-00007.htm

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa38...801/ai_n8789413

[thesultanofsheight]

Perhaps they think the menstrual cycle of some sort of moped they use to get to work?

 

Therefore being asked to document your menstrual cycle shows that you can get you, your husband, your cousin, and both your aunties to work on time.

 

"I'm sorry I was late, my menstrual cycle had a puncture and I had to walk the last 10 miles"

[Gladys]

Why?

 

I submit some academic papers and articles for your consideration:

 

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jpa/21...rticle/-char/en

 

http://www.joem.org/pt/re/joem/abstract.00...07000-00007.htm

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa38...801/ai_n8789413

But why should knowing the date of anyone's LMP make any difference? It is pretty safe to assume that women of a certain age will be menstruating, and that in some it could impair performance/result in time off periodically (although, personally, I have never noticed any change of anything which could be linked to the menstrual cycle, I am just a tetchy bitch all the time), but what difference does it make? How are you going to 'manage' this bit of info?

 

May be better to note on the calendar the big sporting events so that you can gauge when a large proportion of the male workforce is going to have man flu!

 

Just daft, and a waste of time, really.

[Pragmatopian]

Why?

 

I submit some academic papers and articles for your consideration:

 

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jpa/21...rticle/-char/en

 

http://www.joem.org/pt/re/joem/abstract.00...07000-00007.htm

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa38...801/ai_n8789413

But why should knowing the date of anyone's LMP make any difference? It is pretty safe to assume that women of a certain age will be menstruating, and that in some it could impair performance/result in time off periodically (although, personally, I have never noticed any change of anything which could be linked to the menstrual cycle, I am just a tetchy bitch all the time), but what difference does it make? How are you going to 'manage' this bit of info?

 

May be better to note on the calendar the big sporting events so that you can gauge when a large proportion of the male workforce is going to have man flu!

 

Just daft, and a waste of time, really.

 

Wasn't suggesting it was a particularly good use of resources. Just pointing out that it is rather disingenuous of the spokeswoman to say that the menstrual cycle cannot affect work whereas fitness levels can: in fact, both can.

 

The real matter for debate is to what extent it is appropriate to take account of medical history and current health in an employment relationship.

[ans]

Serves them right - especially when I think how many bleeding jobs they're nicking from the UK.

 

Please tell me that's accidental.

[Gladys]

Fair enough, but I suspect the real reason is to avoid employing/continue to employ women who may be pregnant (remember it is India, not here, which could mean some unpleasant decisions based on the 'knowledge' they have gained) .

 

It's also a symptom of the information superhighway mentality, i.e. we should know everything. Some handle it correctly, others do not.

 

I happen to agree that a medical history should be part of the recruitment process, but not part of the ongoing evaluation process. The medical history since recruitment will be self-evident, you don't need to ask such silly questions at an annual appraisal (which should only be a round-up of the past year, not a surprise to either side).

 

I would repeat: daft, and a waste of time.

[Pragmatopian]

I think organizations generally are sloppy in the way they collect, store and analyze data. I know the civil liberties people may start foaming at the mouth, but I'd prefer to maintain all my data in one place and choose (or not) to share elements of it with different people, companies and government agencies as needed rather than filling in dozens of forms. The way tools like Flickr handle interoperability would be a good model - I can choose which applications are allowed to access my Flickr photo stream, and can revoke that access at any time.

 

Also rather controversially I think it is appropriate for employers to use information about health as part of their ongoing evaluation of employees as well as their recruitment decisions. Obviously it may not be the employee's fault that they get sick more often than others, but it may not be the employer's fault either, and why should they be forced to bear the costs of having a less productive employee? Employer's may choose to be benevolent, but they should not be compelled to by law.

[Gladys]

Yes, it is correct that medical history is used by employers, but it doesn't need to be gathered at an annual apraisal. Absence records will reveal the days taken off sick; why ask?

 

Some companies insist on regular medicals, that is fine, as it is usually for pension and insurance purposes (purportedly) but what are the employers going to do with the information otherwise? Sack the person because they may have a propensity to some illness which will take them away from work? I am not a great defender of the working man, nor am I totally on the employer side, but I am a defender of an equitable basis of employment. To me that means not taking the piss out of your employer and vice versa.

 

The questions on menstruation just seem irrelevant and unnecessarily invasive. Would you defend an employer's rights to ask when you last had sex, because there are counter-arguments on the effect that, or the lack of, has on productivity? And what will the employer do, insist you go out on the pull, or that you decline the matrimonials?

 

Like I say, just seems daft and of no real use to the employer.

[OddBod]

It seems pretty straight forward to me, it's simply the blokes in the office wanting to be able to preempt the pre-menstral cycle week before the "Rip your head off with a Melon Spoon" kicks in, that some (ahem) women seem to suffer from.

 

To save on creating a mass of paperwork and this obbvious upset umongst the female staff it would seem to me that an easier way of finding out would of been to have some bloke go round the office asking the tetchi women.....

 

"Are you due on Love"

 

I have always found this to be a sure fire way to discover where women are in there menstral cycle, even if a tad dangerous.

[studmuffin]

its a great idea. Ive worked with loads of women who took a sick day citing "period pain" when they later admit pulling a sickie.

 

This way an employer could quickly cross reference records to see if this is the case.

 

Also this information should be available to men in pubs/clubs etc so they know if it is indeed worth wasting money on drinks only to be told "ive got the painters in" after 5 vodka and cokes have been bought !

 

*books flight and leaves island*

[keyboarder]

"On the blob?" I find that an incredibly vulgar turn of phrase. It's hard to believe that it originated from a mrs.