Newsbot Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 The Isle of Man government is looking for a new Deputy Deemster - one of only three judges on the island. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6549949.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisner Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I hope that the applicants' names are made public before any appointment. You know, just so the public have a chance to have their say should it be needed. I am sure the people of the Isle of Man would not want some corruptible Dodgie Dealer getting to be a Deemster would they....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 What the people of the IOM want, and what they will get are two completely different things, haven't you learn't anything? Off to the International Clown College for you sonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Judges's appointments aren't usually subject to the democratic process except indirectly, and to be honest, I think that's probably how it should be. I would rather have judges whose sentencing was consistent and defensible rather than some "Maximum Bob" character for whom every minor crime was an outrage against society. That said, there is one person in the judiciary (at sub-Deemster level) that I would certainly not like to see promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I am sure the people of the Isle of Man would not want some corruptible Dodgie Dealer getting to be a Deemster would they....... Good God! Have you no respect for our traditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Mr Williamson going within the year and Mr Moyle within the year after that I hear. I personally hope that the legislation is clarified so that there can be more part time appointments, deputy deemsters, deputy high bailiffs and deputy coroners sitting, removing the need for so many acting deemsters coming from England There is the talent and ability, and some of it refreshing, sitting as tribunal members already. And know what, when I joined the bar in 1982, 25 years ago there were only 2 women and half the men were masons, now the women make up a third the bar, more women qualify than men each year and virtually none of the men are in the masons. What is more there are now 200+ advocates instead of only 25 then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 What is more there are now 200+ advocates instead of only 25 then ...And the good news is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 What is more there are now 200+ advocates instead of only 25 then ...And the good news is? The sign of a booming high value service based economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodolite Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 What is more there are now 200+ advocates instead of only 25 then ...And the good news is? For a population of 80,0000 or so........ This stinks to high heaven. This is where a huge proportion of the money that the Isle of Man is *ahem* making going. Forget your New Hospitals and MEA's. There is no bigger take than the Manx Advocates industry. and when you start taking big bucks like this you learn how to stfu. _____________________________________________ When even the local market (ie not just the Finance Sector based big financial institutions and companies) is getting shafted for £100s per hour then there are about the said 200+ people who need to hang their heads in shame. But I am quite sure not one of them will. Yes indeedy, the wonderful Isle of Man has its own wonderful 'laws'.......and the lawyers set their own wonderful extortionate fees this is a fucken disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 What is more there are now 200+ advocates instead of only 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I knew you would enjoy that and make fun Not much ever said about the ones who in spite of the potential rewards of high earning in commerce do legal aid and pro bono There is real talent out there, there are real stars. Scarcity dictates the price, so if you are all up in arms what advocates charge we had better have another 250 quick to lower the cost. Now where is the flaw in that logic to you lot? its no different to plumbers, joiners or anyone else who is self employed and sets their own rate for the job, namely what the market will stand. Just remember any one can give advice on the law without qualification. The only thing that sets an advocate apart is that they can do manx conveyancing, in which there is healthy competitive market and where the highest part of the fees are VAT, search fees and registration fees payable to the government (and the governemt sets a very low cap, or maximum on fees) and to sign court pleadings and appear in court. Off you go! (if its so easy and you think you can do it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 How times change - It is a good deal more than an hundred years since the historian (Mr. Camden) gave the following account of the people of this isle :"The inhabitants in general," says he, " have a very good character; not given either to lewdness, cheating, or thievery; so that every man possesseth his own in peace and safety, none living in fear of losing what he hath." This island, the historian adds, "is happier on another account than we are in England; for the people are free from vexatious and unnecessary lawsuits, from long and dilatory pleas, and from frivolous feeing of lawyers, proctors, and attornies — all controversies being determined without long process, every man pleading his own cause viva voce." Now this, we are too sure, is neither the case nor the character of the times we live in. Very late and melancholy instances we have had to the contrary. Many honest men's properties have been invaded, some by force and some by fraud. The civil magistrate can tell us how very litigious the people are grown of late, to the great increase of his burthen and the expense of his time ; and the people, too many of them, have smarted by the malpractice of such as live and gain by contention. The ecclesiastical magistrate meets every day with new and heretofore unheard — of instances of the contempt of God and of religion. Bishop Wilson - sermon before Tynwald 1736 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJudge Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Not much ever said about the ones who in spite of the potential rewards of high earning in commerce do legal aid Yes, and I don't see many of them driving round in ten year old Ford Fiestas........... you'll have me crying next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I knew you would enjoy that and make fun Not much ever said about the ones who in spite of the potential rewards of high earning in commerce do legal aid and pro bono There is real talent out there, there are real stars. Scarcity dictates the price, so if you are all up in arms what advocates charge we had better have another 250 quick to lower the cost. Now where is the flaw in that logic to you lot? its no different to plumbers, joiners or anyone else who is self employed and sets their own rate for the job, namely what the market will stand. Just remember any one can give advice on the law without qualification. The only thing that sets an advocate apart is that they can do manx conveyancing, in which there is healthy competitive market and where the highest part of the fees are VAT, search fees and registration fees payable to the government (and the governemt sets a very low cap, or maximum on fees) and to sign court pleadings and appear in court. Off you go! (if its so easy and you think you can do it) The proliferation of advocates on the island is to do with the burgeoning finance sector, not to do with burgeoning lawsuits between inhabitants. No counterparty worth their salt will do business with a company (especailly one in a different jurisdiction) without confirmation that the company is able to do what it is intending to do. Legal opinions are, I would imagine, a large part of the current Manx lawyers' workload. Then there is the creation of workable structures under Manx law to put into effect that which Tynwald has legislated upon (clumsy, but I didn't think a 'what' was correct in this context). That is why there are so many lawyers, not because we are being oppressed and it is hardly scandalous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 the problem with the amount of advocates is the legal aid system. the majority of the people who are trying to fight the government and social services are the same people who cant afford to pay for advocates, so therefore they are the people claiming legal aid. now you see the thing is, all the advocates on the island stick together, usually the advocate working for the client on legal aid has probably, at some time or another worked with, and socialises with, the advocate working for the defense (ie. govt / social). so you often get victims who find an advocate to represent them against the govt/social, get so far with the case, come up against difficulty, dont get anywhere further with the case, then throw the case in after two years. this advocate has been paid the legal aid money for his work in the 2 years, yet now the victim has to find another advocate to represent him. the new advocate has to treat it as a new case, so the legal aid money has been lost that was paid to the first advocate. nothing happened. it didn't go anywhere. the money was paid to him for nothing. so then the second advocate tries to advance the case, he tries for 18 months - 2 years, he comes up against too many obstacles and also decides to throw the case in. the victim is now back to square one, 4 years on and no further on. it does make you think though, with the whole of athol street advocates being so close, whether the advocates in this example are ever really working in the clients best interests? what with the way the legal aid money is being thrown at the advocates lately. this, coupled with the way the DLA is set up, puts major strains on the victims, who, in many cases, are unable to work due to whatever accident/incident that started the legal fight in the first place, which has now gone on for years. this is why there are so many advocates on the island, because a lot of them are paid for fuck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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