Energy Descent

[Moghrey Mie]

There is disagreement about how long it will take but agreement that the supply of oil in the world will peak and then run out.

Professor Colin Cambell gave a talk about this during the Energy Efficiency Show at the Villa recently.

 

There is now a movement called Transition Towns for communities that are preparing seriously for Energy Descent and cutting down on their use of oil.

 

Kinsalein Ireland and Lampeter in Wales are going for it.

 

Would anybody be interested on the IOM?

 

www.transitiontowns.org

[RC-Drift.com]

I like to think I'm already an oil miser, but I'm not worrying unduly because there's a big move towards bio oils, and as long as it's possible to get to work on a couple of cups of old chipshop oil, we'll be fine.

[Slim]

Transportation isn't the only thing provided by oil. Food, plastics, medicine, Power, Heat. Our populations simply can't be supported without it. If there's no oil, driving to work will be the least of your worries.

[Mission]

No-one see the Horizon programme on BBC2 the other night then?

 

Seems the moon isn't just made out of cheese you know... clicky

[Hangfire]

what is helium 3????

 

how does it provide such limitless energy???

[slinkydevil]

what is helium 3????

 

how does it provide such limitless energy???

 

I found this interesting site called Google. It's cool, you put in keywords and it brings back a list of sites on a thing called the 'internet'. Then you can read more about 'stuff'.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3

 

"each year three space shuttle missions could bring enough fuel for all human beings across the world."

[Skig]

what is helium 3????

 

how does it provide such limitless energy???

 

I saw most of the program and they were saying that the moon rock is rich in this Helium3 which has been absorbed from the Sun and to bring loads back from the moon and use it in some sort of reactor, it would provide all the energy we need for hundreds of years to come.The middle east oil would become less valuable. This moon rock would be vastly more valuable to us than if they found gold on the moon.

The only other source of Helium3 is from spent fuel from nuclear reactors and that is where they obtained samples to prove that the process will work.

The main thing now is to stop any country laying claim to sole ownership of the moon.

[Rog]

When I retired from salaried employment in 2000 I was persuaded to set up a small business to supply consultancy and sub-contract staff to a number of PTT’s that I had worked with previously.

 

The business roared ahead in spite of my efforts to restrict its growth and a coupe of years ago I moved the emphasis away from consultancy to providing sub contractors and-placement of permanent staff. There’s more brass!

 

So what?

 

Mid year 2006 I started to supply contract staff to a fairly large Underground Coal Gasification development that is being built outside of the EC. Commercial confidentiality precludes me from going into detail about the actual contract but here is a link to a URL reporting on a technology trial that was conducted in the EU.

 

http://www.coal-ucg.com/current%20developments.html

 

It looks like it could be one option to provide energy from a resource that is otherwise very expensive to exploit using conventional mining practice. There’s a hell of a lot of coal in the UK that, if it could be accessed using this technology, would be a very significant resource indeed.

[Albert Tatlock]

No-one see the Horizon programme on BBC2 the other night then?

 

Seems the moon isn't just made out of cheese you know... clicky

I saw part of that programme. We had a lecture from the guys at JET in around 1988 - and it looks like they haven't moved on since then! Maintaining the reaction whilst not stripping the side of the reactor was their main problem then, and still seems to be their main problem now. With all this alleged global warming this programme was most probably aimed at increasing their funding.

 

There are two oil 'peaks' to consider here:

 

I read an article last year in the Independent that said the oil has peaked - i.e. that we have already used up more oil than there are reserves left in the ground.

 

The other peak (production demand) - has nothing to do with what's left - only what's needed at the time and the daily level of what's left that can be extracted. Production demand will no doubt carry on going up until a. we suddenly run out or b. the trend in demand curtails (unlikely with the predicted growth of India and China).

 

If we want to secure our own oil - we'd better start invading countries such as Iraq to get some, invent something like global warming to pursuade India and China to slow down their growth, tax our own poor to stop using the roads so that the wealthy can use the last of the oil, and keep the third world from getting electricity and using up any oil at all...oh!

[Chinahand]

The other peak (production demand) - has nothing to do with what's left - only what's needed at the time and the daily level of what's left that can be extracted. Production demand will no doubt carry on going up until a. we suddenly run out or b. the trend in demand curtails (unlikely with the predicted growth of India and China).

 

If we want to secure our own oil - we'd better start invading countries such as Iraq to get some, invent something like global warming to pursuade India and China to slow down their growth, tax our own poor to stop using the roads so that the wealthy can use the last of the oil, and keep the third world from getting electricity and using up any oil at all...oh!

 

My problem with this is that production demand will depend upon the price and the price for energy will influence which energy sources are economic in which particular climate.

 

There are huge reserves of tar coals, methyle hydrates, plus wind, tide, wave, nuclear - fusion and fission.

 

I think Albert's a] and b] scenarios ignore the influence of price on demand - and so are hopelessly inadequate.

 

Presently oil is cheaper - in real terms - than in the 1970s. The presures to move away from oil are driven more by ecological and (geo-)political concerns than cost. This will no doubt change in the coming years and there will be a very complex interaction as new technologies come on line.

 

The change from a coal economy to an oil and gas one didn't create huge problems - will the "end" of oil really be any different?

 

The world changes - technology and resources are developed as demands alter. Nothing new there.

[Albert Tatlock]

The other peak (production demand) - has nothing to do with what's left - only what's needed at the time and the daily level of what's left that can be extracted. Production demand will no doubt carry on going up until a. we suddenly run out or b. the trend in demand curtails (unlikely with the predicted growth of India and China).

I think Albert's a] and b] scenarios ignore the influence of price on demand - and so are hopelessly inadequate.

I think you must be confusing economics with home economics. Demand has numerous factors, price is just one of them, and I'm not going to print a textbook to explain that with each of my posts. An example of price on demand - was all of us getting ripped off with high prices over the last couple of winters - but generally we still had to pay it or freeze. Even though it was a relatively mild winter only something like a 10% reduction in supply occured.

 

Most of the world's economy is based on oil - if you think that will really change significantly in less than 30 years - then, sorry, but you have another think coming (e.g. the UK has only just hit the 2GWatts milestone on wind-generation - and it took decades to get even there - and that doesn't even match the population growth over the same period etc. etc.).

[Roger Smelly]

what is helium 3????

 

The main thing now is to stop any country laying claim to sole ownership of the moon.

 

I think the USA will claim dibs on it 'cause they were there first, and we're pals with the Yanks, so that's worked out quite nicely!

 

The space shuttle can drop off a few bottles off this Helium-3 on its way back to the States for all of us here in Europe, I might put some into my Carlton, the old girl could do with a bit of pep.

 

 

 

You actually think they went to the moon lol, when you work out the forces involved in landing there there is no way they landed that tin foil pie dish on it lol.

 

What make me laugh is the flag fluttering in the breeze up on there haha classic next you will be saying buzz's flatulence made it move.

[mtj73]

I like to think I'm already an oil miser, but I'm not worrying unduly because there's a big move towards bio oils, and as long as it's possible to get to work on a couple of cups of old chipshop oil, we'll be fine.

 

That's right if you got a diesel, but the world consumes over 80 million barrels of oil every day, thats a hell of lot of chip shops.

 

 

The largest oilfield on the planet is the Ghawar field in Saudi arabia and that has been pumped for over 50 years, it can't go on for another 50 at todays rate. http://home.entouch.net/dmd/ghawar.htm Saudi Arabia is consided as the worlds capacity buffer when there is extra demand.

[Jimcalagon]

Of course you are all assuming that the only source of Oil and gas is from natural deposits. Thermal depolymerisation (look it up on Wikipedia) could supply all the world's energy needs for ever and would also solve the problem of landfill.

 

Basically heat up whatever you want to get rid of - from tyres to offal to household waste - and produce petrol, gas and other organic chemicals. The gas produced is used to heat the rubbish etc. so it is self-supporting In 10 years time we could have an open cast rubbish mine at the point of ayre, diggin up all the old crap we couldn't get rid of and supplying all the oil the isnald needs.

 

Oh and Roger Smelly needs to look at this page and study some GCSE Physics.

[Slim]

You actually think they went to the moon lol, when you work out the forces involved in landing there there is no way they landed that tin foil pie dish on it lol.

 

What make me laugh is the flag fluttering in the breeze up on there haha classic next you will be saying buzz's flatulence made it move.

 

Your ignorance is inspiring, it makes me feel very smart indeed, cheers!

 

The flag ripples through the action of putting it in the ground. You twist the pole, it ripples. Because there's low gravity (1/6 earth gravity) and because there's no atmosphere, the ripples will stay on the flag after the pole is stationary. It's very basic physics indeed. Imagine if you were the men who risked their lives to travel there, or you were one of the thousands of scientists and engineered involved in the frankly astounding feat of landing on the moon, and all your brilliance and hard work was discredited by a bunch of thick conspiracy theorists? It's deeply sad.

 

The moon landings couldn't possibly have been faked. They brought rocks back for christs sake, rocks that are unique and the whole reason we're having this dicussion about helium 3.