T.t. Week - Some Miserable Landowners

[Albert Tatlock]

Writing long posts isn't quite as bad as basically being a petite-Stalinist, I hope. Bring it on, lil' Joe!

A Stalinist? - that's interesting.

 

Stalinism is the political and economic system named after Joseph Stalin, who implemented it in the Soviet Union.

 

It includes an extensive use of propaganda to establish a personality cult around an absolute dictator (Don't support that), as well as extensive use of the secret police (Don't support that) to maintain social submission (Don't support that) and silence political dissent (Don't support that).

 

The term "Stalinism" is used by anti-communists, communists (left communists, Trotskyists, Luxemburgists, council communists), and even pro-Stalin Marxist-Leninists themselves to denote the brand of communist theory that dominated the Soviet Union, and the countries within the Soviet sphere of influence, during the leadership of Joseph Stalin. (What does that make you?).

Nope! - plus I am now even more convinced that all those degrees you profess to have - are actually on your kitchen thermometer.

[VinnieK]

Nope! - plus I am now even more convinced that all those degrees you profess to have - are actually on your kitchen thermometer.

 

A petit-Stalinist, as in having all the bluster, resentment of wealth, expertise and authority, and tendency to manipulate terms like community spirit, pseudoscience et al, to serve your own ends, but with none of the substance, coherence, or organization of true Stalinism.

 

As for "All those degrees"... find the post where I profess to have multiple degrees - I'm doing an MSc, and I've never claimed otherwise. By contrast, you're the one who stamped his foot and squealed about his Masters degree when the Global Warming discussion was going against you.

[chufty]

To allow spectators to view the races from you property could end up in tears, in the event of a accident who would cover the costs. Public liability insurance would be needed, we now live in a world that is hell bent on making claims. Example would be that you allow Joe Public to sit on you garden wall to watch the races, he slips off and bangs his head or breaks an arm in your garden, You are at fault not Joe Public.

[Albert Tatlock]

Nope! - plus I am now even more convinced that all those degrees you profess to have - are actually on your kitchen thermometer.

 

A petit-Stalinist, as in having all the bluster, resentment of wealth, expertise and authority, and tendency to manipulate terms like community spirit, pseudoscience et al, to serve your own ends, but with none of the substance, coherence, or organization of true Stalinism.

 

As for "All those degrees"... find the post where I profess to have multiple degrees - I'm doing an MSc, and I've never claimed otherwise. By contrast, you're the one who stamped his foot and squealed about his Masters degree when the Global Warming discussion was going against you.

No, I don't resent mega-wealth just how it can be abused sometimes at the expense of the majority; yes I do have experience and continue to look for more all the time and certainly enjoy a debate; yes I am comparing community spirit with what things used to be like in the past - which does indicate that things are changing on the island for the worse; I use the term psuedoscience when people maintain opinions based simply on other peoples opinions or from the media, and don't look for the facts (or check them out) for themselves which often usually ends up with unjustifiable circular arguments; and I was asked a specific question about my qualifications during the debate and answered it honestly.

 

You have to be able to learn to take it, as well as give it out Vinnie.

[Roger Smelly]

As long as the government pay for the damages and the litter to be picked up i am sure landowners would say yes.

 

Have you seen some places after the TT ?

 

I know a farmer who had fencing ripped down and litter all over the place, what if one of his animals eat some litter who would pay the vets bill ?

 

I think if the people take care when watching then i am sure land owners would be fine with it.

[chufty]

[Roger Smelly]

Hey chufty you cannot give a lawn mower one like a sheep

[Fossils]

From MR: It appears that several landowners are, this year, stopping people having casual access at various vantage points (fields and hedges) in order to watch the TT.

 

With anything up to 45,000 people due to attend, they should be ashamed of themselves AFAIAC, and if from the UK should be put on the boat back immediately. It's not like the centenary is going to happen every year.

 

"Several landowners" are obviously trying for a cash windfall, if they have just decided to make a stand in Centenary Year.

 

With regard to the mention of stock eating dropped litter; have you seen the amount of bale-wrap and fertiliser bag rubbish that many farmers leave to blow around the hedges, streams and fields?

[VinnieK]

No, I don't resent mega-wealth just how it can be abused sometimes at the expense of the majority;

 

Private land adjoining the TT course isn't necessarily in the hands of the "mega wealthy", and you haven't yet explained why existing legitimate sports for viewing the TT are inadequate and require people to open up their private property to the public.

 

yes I am comparing community spirit with what things used to be like in the past - which does indicate that things are changing on the island for the worse;

 

In your opinion. How does a landowner denying access to his land represent a change for the worse, when people have plenty of alternatives on offer? You might not like the way things are changing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's for the worse, or that it's down to a lack of community spirit. Also, community spirit works both ways: Take for instance the smoking debate. You argue that the smoking ban represents an imposition on your civil liberties, but non-smokers, who are in the majority, could easily claim that if you had "community spirit" you'd be happy to smoke outside so that anyone is free to enjoy whatever establishment they care to visit. This is less about community spirit, and more about you getting your own way, as it always is.

 

I use the term psuedoscience when people maintain opinions based simply on other peoples opinions or from the media, and don't look for the facts (or check them out) for themselves which often usually ends up with unjustifiable circular arguments;

 

Pure nonesense. Taking the global warming debate as an example, you have not read the original research papers and you're not qualified to understand them (and I have no problem with admitting the same is true in my case) - instead you've based your views, just as the rest of us have, on the summaries and opinions provided by others (and dare I say it the convenience of those opinions for justifying your own instinctual belief). That's not pseudoscience, that's simply the role expert opinion has in our society.

 

Also, you pretty much directly accused scientists in favour of the hypothesis of engaging in pseudoscience, which was ridiculous then as it is now, and I have no doubt you'll do it again the next time some eminent scientist or another says something you disagree with.

 

and I was asked a specific question about my qualifications during the debate and answered it honestly.

 

As I recall, you were not asked at all. It was stated that it was unlikely that you, not being a biologist etc, have the qualifications to understand the precise details of the scientific argument you were adopting or refuting, to which you responded by bringing up a Masters in a discipline that's irrelevant to the debate, and your final year modelling project. That you were qualified in one sense or another was never in question - the suitability of those qualifications was (and legitimately so, given the context)

 

You have to be able to learn to take it, as well as give it out Vinnie.

 

You missed the bit where I explicitely asked you to bring it on then? The internet wouldn't be the internet without rubbish flamewars.

[Juan Kerr]

To allow spectators to view the races from you property could end up in tears, in the event of a accident who would cover the costs. Public liability insurance would be needed, we now live in a world that is hell bent on making claims. Example would be that you allow Joe Public to sit on you garden wall to watch the races, he slips off and bangs his head or breaks an arm in your garden, You are at fault not Joe Public.

 

I agree with you. Its not so simple in this day and age. Someone trips on your land, or worse gets hit by a bike in an accident and you've no liability insurance your screwed as they'll take you to the cleaners. Plus you get left with your hedges full of coke cans and crisp packets.

 

I don't blame them for not letting people on their land.

 

Who cares whether its the Centinery or not.

[WilDDog]

If the landowners don't want people watching the bikes from there land that's their call and there decision should be respected.

[Diomed]

A friend and former colleague who is also a marshall has fields on the TT course and has had to stop people using the hedges to view the races due to the destruction caused to the wire fences and posts. I own fields and the amount of work [and expense] involved in keeping the fencing secure to keep the sheep and horses safe is considerable. It is quite soul destroying when fences are trashed by the public either to view the TT, rally cars or just taking a short cut to pick mushrooms or whatever.

 

[The Agitator]

Firstly anyone who uses the phrase IMHO (in my humble opinion) is a wa***r anyway.

Secondly if people don't want others tramping around their land then that is the end of the matter.

Thirdly, i wont be here for TT this year and my garden equally is not available.

Fourthly i gain nothing from the TT, in fact it costs me money in lost time. My firm shuts as it's shut in!

Roll on the death of the TT, sooner the better. I really dont want to keep booking holidays to avoid it. (and paying through the nose to get off the Island in this period)

[Fossils]

Firstly anyone who uses the phrase IMHO (in my humble opinion) is a wa***r anyway.

Secondly if people don't want others tramping around their land then that is the end of the matter.

Thirdly, i wont be here for TT this year and my garden equally is not available.

Fourthly i gain nothing from the TT, in fact it costs me money in lost time. My firm shuts as it's shut in!

Roll on the death of the TT, sooner the better. I really dont want to keep booking holidays to avoid it. (and paying through the nose to get off the Island in this period)

 

Firstly, you just used "that phrase".

Secondly, are you taking your garden "equally" with you on holiday.

Thirdly, where are you going to?

[puddy]

The litter left behind after the TT races is embarrassing. I really enjoy the TT but just find it so shameful that a large number of people who watch the races have such little respect for the Manx countryside.

 

Ok, so at the Grandstand or other busy places people might be fogiven for thinking that somebody will clear up their mess, but I can't believe people can really expect the litter fairies to go up to the mountain and pick up their shit all the way around the course, even in the most remote areas. It's often left in fields where there are animals too. If this is what's putting some landowners off giving access during races, I honestly can't blame them.