Should Chavs Be Sterilized?

[Lonan3]

I have a different take on the current social problems

 

I think the late night heavy drinking culture is more likely a product of lack of self respect, the same with teen pregnancies and benefit dependency, as well as violence

 

I'm not sure that its new either, I just think it wasn't reported or didn't impinge on those who consider thyemselves middle class. The recent BBC4 series on the Edwardians seemed to show more of the same.

 

It may have got worse becase it is reported and is visible

 

It isn't just now, or dating back to the 1980's. Some of the women convicted of child abuse were in their late '30's and early '40's. That takes us back to childhood and education in the '70's

 

How can anyone who was "not one of us" to quote Thatcher, who was vilified by the Tories between 1979 and 1996, whose parents were thrown out of work and whose economies were wrecked by the application of Conservative dogma be expected to respect society, which was for the most part denied to exist, or themselves. If they cannot do that then how can they be expected to respect anyone else

 

I am afraid we are now seeing the visiting upon us of the social legacy of Thatcherism. It will take yeras to undo, billions in damaged families and may be unstoppable. That adds on to 60's liberation, 1930's depression etc etc

 

WE may have it most because we are moving first into the post industrial eceonomy, something engineered by the monetarists, the same is happening in the States, with less welfare. Its the identification of, the definition of and the vilification of a perceived underclass

 

Its hard to turn back the clock, but maybe, just maybe it can be done with education at all stages of life.

 

There are several things we can be sure will make it worse. The first is the idea of national service, where they will be taught to kill, drink to huge excess and think it is an excuse for everything, obey orders blindly (not good for a democracy) and certainly not earn any self respect.

 

The second is to abandon whatever is left of our moral structure as a nation and put forward ideas of sterilisation against any group. It wasn't acceptable when the Nazis did it, it isn't now. It won't ever be, I hope. It's no different than the Protestants fearing being over run by the Catholics in Northern Ireland suggesting it. Substitute the hate focus of the moment such as Chav with black, gay, handicapped, christain, muslim etc etc and see how soon you come to the line beyond which you cannot cross.

 

The third is that we allow our press to glorify these people, all the "so called celeb magazines" then we love even more to see them fall. Why does this market exist? Why do we buy. Why is there a priurient interest in all this non sense.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying go back to the old values, whatever they were. I think we need to recognise how lucky we are, but that also, inspite of new labour there are still 1.7 million unemployed, a disastrous figure historically. How can they have respect, why won't they work. The Poles et al only fill jobs the Brits won't apply for. From this topic we don't afford them any respect, why should they respect back.

 

In the UK, and this post has to be about the UK, statistics show 60% are now economically middle class in terms of earnings, education and aspiration, but only 40 % recognise themselves as that. So what do we do about the 20% who, inspite of having arrived, still behave in a manner not to the liking of middle class society and the 40% who are still out there who haven't made it and probably never will and who behave as they have always done, to the disapproval of the middle classes.

 

And when was middle class morality correct ior have a superiority over the morality of any social group. Surely it is tiem for a debate about acceptable limits, because that is what we are talking about and IMHO compulsory state sponsored sterilisation is as off limits as child abuse

 

Excellent post.

[Albert Tatlock]

It's quite scary how George Orwell and various other Sci-Fi writers of the past who have written about the future in their time - just how many things have already come to pass or are beginning to come to pass.

 

There is an episode of the Twilight Zone, where in the far future, goverment has obliged all children to pass a mandatory IQ test once they reach the age of 12.

 

Examination Day

 

Richard "Dickie" Jordan Jr has just turned twelve himself, and is more than ready to take the challenge. His parents, though, are less than enthousiastic - they are avoiding his questions about it, and trying to ease his thoughts by giving him his dream present two years too early, and feeding him with birthday cake. Still, Dickie, a rather bright child, is overly eager to prove them he'll ace the test, so he keeps on talking about it, much to distress of his mother.

 

The examination day finally comes, and Dickie is taken to the testing facility, where he registers and takes his place in the waiting room. Once his name is called up, Dickie's father informs him that he can't wait for him there, and that he will pick him up after they are phoned the results. He leaves, and Dickie enters the examination chamber, beginning the testing procedure.

 

Hours later, the Jordans are sitting at home, anxiously awaiting the phone call which will inform them of Dickie's results. The phone finally rings, and an indifferent female voice tells them exactly what they feared - Dickie completed the test...but is deemed too intelligent by the goverment, and is therefore killed.

 

It's getting like that now, where the children of "hard working, responsible, don't have kids till we have a house and can afford them" type parents are not being born (effectively culled), and their unborn children replaced and overrun with the state sponsored uneducated feral children of chavs.

 

Whilst I agree with having a welfare state, I think we have got the entire balance wrong. The underclass is taking over. An underclass sponsored by a government milking hard working people (highest tax burden ever); a government intent on creating a growing majority who have little understanding, though no control, of a media reactive government happy to 'perform' daily to the chav Sun/Mail lynch mob mentality in order to keep them quiet. In the meantime the government is allowed to pursue their own relatively unquestioned foreign policies (we're still there - despite what the majority think) and domestic policies of high taxation - whilst convincing the non-thinking chav majority that the bad guys have to be kept under control by the introduction of police-state tactics such as ID cards, Cameras etc. (which just happen to keep the non-thinkers, thinkers, chavs and everyone else 'under-control').

 

I'm convinced Labour are intent on creating their own majority army of non-thinking chav drones - who, incidentally, will never vote against, nor question, the hand that feeds them.

[John Wright]

Chavs either don't vote or wouldn't vote Labour Albert.

[Albert Tatlock]

Chavs either don't vote or wouldn't vote Labour Albert.

Disagree. People always vote for who looks after them (and there will soon be enough of them - even taking into account low-turnouts and voter apathy). If the opposition announced they would be undertaking a massive benefit overhaul - chavs will be organised en masse - and live in areas where labour is most active.

[Chinahand]

David Cameron's speech today seems to directly tap into what Albert Tatlock is saying - Agree Albert? - you don't seem a natural Cameron supporter - are you surprised at the similarity of views?

[Albert Tatlock]

David Cameron's speech today seems to directly tap into what Albert Tatlock is saying - Agree Albert? - you don't seem a natural Cameron supporter - are you surprised at the similarity of views?

Heh! He probably just typed in "Should Chavs Be Sterilized?" or "Chavs steralized" into Google - as either brings MF to the top of the Google list

 

Regardless of people's politics, I think many people are starting to realise that we all need this solved and simply throwing money at it, or simply taking money away are not the right answers. However, IMO Cameron is just doing his usual camaleon approach to politics, saying what he thinks people want to hear.

 

Both Labour and the Conservatives are equally responsible for this situation, in terms of 'rolling the state back and rolling the state forward' - neither has proved to work. The eventual solution needs far bigger brains than politicians to work it out, and even if there is an answer, it will take generations to change people back to the levels of respect and responsibility we once enjoyed - unless shock tactics, e.g. such as introducing some kind of national social service, are introduced, for which I believe there is actually a great deal of support in the UK.

[grant]

Whilst both john wrights and alberts posts are excellent and spot on, and I agree wholeheartedly, I would be really interested to hear from someone who dosn't.

[Lonan3]

Perhaps we should just arrange to give them 200 duty-free fags per day each? According to some forum members that ought to be enough to see off those who smoke - and their mates who inhale their secondary smoke - pretty quickly.

[Albert Tatlock]

Whilst both john wrights and alberts posts are excellent and spot on, and I agree wholeheartedly, I would be really interested to hear from someone who dosn't.

We've heard about Camerons 'hug a hoodie' - how about encouraging 'Hug a Chav' day.

 

[Gladys]

Chavs either don't vote or wouldn't vote Labour Albert.

Disagree. People always vote for who looks after them (and there will soon be enough of them - even taking into account low-turnouts and voter apathy). If the opposition announced they would be undertaking a massive benefit overhaul - chavs will be organised en masse - and live in areas where labour is most active.

Disagree again, they really do not vote. Cannot be arsed, basically. They wouldn't recognise a political party, let alone an ideology, if it it them square in the forehead.

[Albert Tatlock]

Chavs either don't vote or wouldn't vote Labour Albert.

Disagree. People always vote for who looks after them (and there will soon be enough of them - even taking into account low-turnouts and voter apathy). If the opposition announced they would be undertaking a massive benefit overhaul - chavs will be organised en masse - and live in areas where labour is most active.

Disagree again, they really do not vote. Cannot be arsed, basically. They wouldn't recognise a political party, let alone an ideology, if it it them square in the forehead.

Well now...aren't we really just getting into this debate? And starting to talk about grades of chavs and getting into the definition of chavs? Which is actually quite complicated i.e. where we have we have potential Chavs, full-chavs, near chavs, semi-chavs, partial chavs and non-chavs etc.

 

Nevertheless, there is still a Chav graph, which we ALL sit on somewhere - albeit at the top or the bottom. And doesn't the graph have three axes - success, failure and blame (or excuse)?

 

We can all be dumped onto the Chav graph at some stage in our lives. When/if we get there, some still care a great deal and have some hope on the Chav graph (starters and recoverers) and escape the graph, some don't give a monkeys (true Chavs) - as well as a raft of people inbetween. Haven't most people been 'potential starter Chavs' in their time (ever claimed the dole for instance - or been thrown into the 'potential system via divorce etc.?).

 

A Chav is someone who tends to go along with the blame (excuse) axis and the failure axis - and ignores (and does nothing about) the success axis..and takes the sitting on the dole, the benefits route and sitting on your **** route - where claiming off others is preferencial and beneficial.

 

...which is probably where John Wright is coming from in his earlier posts - which is probably a more true reflection on reality i.e. the route to becoming a true Chav is either easy or complicated. IMO responsible people pick the difficult route to becoming a Chav, true Chavs pick the easy route to sitting on their ****.

 

Isn't the debate really about where people sit on this graph - and what we do when faced with the choice - and realise it is ACTUALLY a choice in most cases?

 

Something like that - but obviously a lot more complicated -especially for someone like me who's had a couple of beers this evening - hic!

[Rog]

To paraphrase Chaim Weizmann ‘There are no Chavs’.

 

There are simply the dregs of society, those who whenever given the opportunity gravitate towards council estates or DHSS funded private housing and a life of idleness interspersed with petty crime, scrounging off The Welfare State, and trying to make out everyone was the same as they are in order to dismiss just what low life they are themselves. I think more than a few actually believe it.

 

Some are more blatant about it, even going to the extent of emphasising just what trash they are by dressing in glaring symbols of faux wealth in the mistaken belief it impresses anyone other than their own class, others simply sit back and grow cholesterol in their veins.

 

Should such people be considered the same as everyone else? Categorically no. I have long held the view that universal suffrage is simply wrong and I also believe that there should now be a limit on family size.

 

What a shame a drug can not be created that would impose sterility on everyone and only those who have demonstrated good character, reasonable intelligence, and genetic purity given the antidote and allowed to procreate.

 

And I really do mean it.

 

I came back to the UK for Easter.

 

Maybe it was having been away for a few weeks, maybe it was the hot weather bringing them out, whatever, so much of the place is like a slum. Just to think I once thought Janets Corner and Pulrose were the pits. Compared to the parts of the Island where decent people live they were, and probably still are.

 

Norfolk may be a bit of a backwater (OK, it is) but compared to London and the dreadful surroundings not to mention Leicester where had to visit to see a client and Nottingham where I had to meet with a supplier, give me a backwater every time. Just glad we didn’t sell our place in Norfolk but loaned to to my son instead.

 

If ever we decide or need to return to the UK at least we probably have the best to go to that there is.

 

It was very good to get back to my new home in spite of the British (and now worst of all NuBritish) trash on the ‘plane, all off to their all-inclusive binges or self catering rent-a-slum apartments with their dreadfully shrill women and horrible ill behaved brats standing out against the other non-Brit tourists like drunken gypsies at a decent garden party.

[Lonan3]

To paraphrase Chaim Weizmann ‘There are no Chavs’.

 

There are simply the dregs of society, those who whenever given the opportunity gravitate towards council estates or DHSS funded private housing

I deeply resent the implication that a 'chav' lifestyle can only be equated with such environments. many of the most obvious 'chavs' are the spoilt offspring of those who gave them too much when they were little. there are certainly as many (if not more) such people living in privately-owned houses. Possibly the only difference being that they are able to pay the fines.

 

'Rog' date='Apr 25 2007, 10:32 AM' post='232662'

What a shame a drug can not be created that would impose sterility on everyone and only those who have demonstrated good character, reasonable intelligence, and genetic purity given the antidote and allowed to procreate.

 

You would have no offspring. You would fail on both the 'good character' and the 'reasonable intelligence' sections. You might pass on the 'genetic purity' if the more obvious effects of inbreeding could be disguised in some way.

And I really do mean it.

 

'Rog' date='Apr 25 2007, 10:32 AM' post='232662'

Just to think I once thought Janets Corner and Pulrose were the pits. Compared to the parts of the Island where decent people live they were, and probably still are.

 

Just shows how out of touch you are. Pulrose has been totally rebuilt and is now an excellent estate. Janet's Corner will soon be receiving similar treatment.

I would suggest that you now remain on the island that you have selected for your retirement - the one that is so is noted for corruption that it makes our island seem pure by comparison. Fortunately, if the global warming people are right, Norfolk won't be around for much longer anyway!

[P.K.]

To paraphrase Chaim Weizmann ‘There are no Chavs’.

 

There are simply the dregs of society, those who whenever given the opportunity gravitate towards council estates or DHSS funded private housing

I deeply resent the implication that a 'chav' lifestyle can only be equated with such environments. many of the most obvious 'chavs' are the spoilt offspring of those who gave them too much when they were little. there are certainly as many (if not more) such people living in privately-owned houses. Possibly the only difference being that they are able to pay the fines.

Not so.

 

The four quite horrific harridans who kicked this off are the epitome of failed parents. Now if they were unusual in their lifestyle and attitudes it wouldn't be so bad but unfortunately they are not. We are now onto second- and third-generation wasters whose role-model parents have no pride or self-respect by choice. They make no effort whatsoever to improve their lot because they simply don't have to. Their feral rat-pack offspring show no respect to anyone simply because they have none in themselves so they are running wild. Cameron is not going to fix it by giving them a hug. Prat. Conscription will not fix it either and neither will giving teachers more authority. Why should these publicly funded institutions have to do what their parents should be doing?

[Slim]

Does anyone think a China style incentive to sterilisation would work in this country? Give a Chav an mp3 player in exchange for the ship?