manxman8180 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 There's no smoke without fire <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whilst I am in agreement with the general principles in your posts Minnie. I do still have a bit of a problem with the use of that phrase. There are spurious allegations made about men (and women) regularly which turn out to be completely false. So by that turn of phrase anyone accused of a crime is determined as being guilty prior to any trial?? Maybe I'm reading more into it than I should, if so I apologise, because I can (as a parent myself) genuinely see where you are coming from with the general gist of your posts. But where do we stop, there may be murderers, thieves, drunk drivers who have killed out and about. We may be next to them on the bus, they could be living next door to you and we do not have a public announcement to 'out' these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 There are spurious allegations made about men (and women) regularly which turn out to be completely false. So by that turn of phrase anyone accused of a crime is determined as being guilty prior to any trial?? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3945715.stm Yeah, no smoke without fire. I bet he's going to be happy to hear that all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 perfect example Ans However: "Mr Rush told the court the encounter turned sour after they had sex, when he said he was leaving to watch a football match." Maybe I need a female perspective, but what's wrong with that ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 There's no smoke without fire <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whilst I am in agreement with the general principles in your posts Minnie. I do still have a bit of a problem with the use of that phrase. There are spurious allegations made about men (and women) regularly which turn out to be completely false. So by that turn of phrase anyone accused of a crime is determined as being guilty prior to any trial?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But this man has not only been accused of a crime, he's been convicted and has the potential to re-offend. I used the phrase in the context that people are saying it's unlikely he will assault another boy, but he is a convicted sex offender whom the police are monitoring as a result of reports that he is in a situation whereby he could re-offend. I don't believe the police would make a statement if they didn't think the situation was of a serious nature and warranted a warning to the public. Like I said, I'm not calling for a name and shame on these sorts of people, but I feel the public have to right to know more facts about situations like this one so that we can adequately protect our children. Perhaps the sexual assault wasn't the most horrific we'll ever come across, but give parents more detail so they can ascertain the possible risk to the children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I don't believe the police would make a statement if they didn't think the situation was of a serious nature and warranted a warning to the public. One thing I'm not clear on... Who made the intital report? Was it the police or was it someone who knew the person? Was the police statement made in response the the news item, e.g. did a journalist say to the police that they were aware of this person in parks and ask the police for a statement. Or.. Did the police initially observe him in the park and then issue a statement through the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 One thing I'm not clear on... Who made the intital report? Was it the police or was it someone who knew the person? Was the police statement made in response the the news item, e.g. did a journalist say to the police that they were aware of this person in parks and ask the police for a statement. Or.. Did the police initially observe him in the park and then issue a statement through the media? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you intentionally trying to get on people's wick with your irrelevant questions? How much clearer do you need it to be? Will it take him re-offending before you see the threat this man poses? I do not know who made the initial report, although I'm sure from reading between the lines of the news article, this man has been reportedly spotted on more than one occasion as he's "been seen in parks and open spaces around Douglas and Onchan trying to meet young boys". I honestly fail to see what relevance your questions have because as far as I'm concerned the police are obviously taking the reports seriously and have investigated them judging by the fact that they are monitoring his movements and working with him to try and avoid him re-offending, and that they have made these statements to the general public. I'm sure the police wouldn't make such comments if there wasn't a very real and genuine risk posed to children/teenagers by this man. From what I remember of the full article in the Independent a lot of this has stemmed from an MHK expressing his concerns over the lack of power the police have in controlling the movements of sex offenders and the lack of information given to parents with regards this type of situation. We know, not presume but know, that this man has been convicted of an indecent assault on a minor and he has been placed on the sex offenders register, and if reports are anything to go by it looks like this man has the potential to re-offend and harm another child. I don't know the reason for him not serving a jail sentence for his offence, quite possibly it's nowhere near as horrific as some assaults we hear about or perhaps he was caught before it went too far, but that's not to say the risks shouldn't be taken seriously, because just maybe next time he may go that bit further, without being disturbed, and it could be one of our children he harms. If you have children of your own I sincerely hope you heed the warnings from this article and are just that bit more cautious, reiterating the fact that they should be wary of any strangers who approach them. I don't mean to be rude or offensive but I think you're very naive and irresponsible if you don't believe there is a serious risk here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Are you intentionally trying to get on people's wick with your irrelevant questions? Calm down dear, it's only a discussion What I'd like to know is Was he under police observbig splash in the papers to warn all parents or Did Mrs A, who knew of him, spot him in a park one day, contact the papers and say I've just seen Mr X in a park, the papers then contact the police and the police have to issue some sort of statement. If he is such a big risk after indecently assaulting a minor then was probation the right punishment for him in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 I'm perfectly calm thanks, but what I don't appreciate is buffoons like you who can't see what a possible threat this man could be to children. If you're really that bothered about finding out the answers to your questions why don't you contact the papers or the police? To be honest, I don't believe the police would issue a warning without there having been some outcry in the first place, and that is where the problem lies with situations like this one........protection for sex offenders comes before protection for children. At the end of the day all I care about is protecting my children and I've taken steps to warn my eldest boy in particular about the obvious increased danger and as I said, if you have children too I hope you've done the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Minnie, can I explain why I'd like to know more about the background. I employ, work with, and happen to like, one of the men involved in the "Noble's Park Toilets" incident. These men were very publically outed, had their crimes published in detail in the papers and on the radio and had to face the shame and humilation of it all. They had committed acts of public indecency. If homosexual acts were still illegal then, irresepctive of age or consent, then they would also have also commited acts of sexual assault. No prison sentences were involved and I don't think there was a sex offenders register then. Once couldn't take it and killed himself. The man we employ took a few months off work and then came back to work. I wouldn't like it if this man, for example, stopped off at the toilets in Laxey for a xxxx on his way to a job in Ramsey, and someone knew him and went to the papers said "Mr X has been seen in public toilets again" That was a few years ago and most people will have forgotten about it. I had hesitated to mention it again I can understand your genuine concern. I wanted to know more about the background of the case before condemming someone to another 60 years of finger pointing at the bogey man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 I can see your point but to be perfectly honest that situation is completely different from the one we're talking about here. The men involved in the "Nobles Park Toilets" incident probably posed no obvious risk to children. They committed acts of indecency so why shouldn't they be "named and shamed", I'm sorry if someone felt the need to take their life over it but they brought the shame and humiliation upon themselves for committing the acts in the first place. I have said I don't particularly want this man named and shamed only to be beaten up the minute someone spots him, what I want is a bit more information so that I can do my level best to protect my 2 children. I'm most certainly not the sort of person who, if I found out who this man was, would see him in the street and cause a big fuss and start screaming "pervert, paedophile" or the likes. Unfortunately there are people who would take the law into their own hands which is probably why the authorities see it best to release as little information as possible. The fact is though, this man has been convicted, placed on the register and is now known to be approaching boys again..........he is a clear risk and I see no problem with him being branded as a sex offender because that is what he is. I'm sure the police don't monitor the movements of any Tom, Dick or Harry, which is why I think this incident should be taken seriously. Edited to add: The incident in Nobles Park highlights the problem with the law for some people, why should those men be named but the bloke we're talking about gets to keep his identity secret from the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I employ, work with, and happen to like, one of the men involved in the "Noble's Park Toilets" incident. Yeah, I vaguely remember something about this case. Something about grown men having consentual sexual relations in secret wasn't it? I can see why you're making a comparison with an adult having a relationship with a minor, it's almost a parallel case. </sarcasm> I actually used to work with one of the guys too. Top bloke really, I'd have hired him myself if I ever needed someone to do that job for me Edit: Beaten by Minnie AGAIN. Damn my RSI afflicted fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnie Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Edit: Beaten by Minnie AGAIN. Damn my RSI afflicted fingers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps a course in speed typing may help??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Minnie - warn your kids, why not. Of course kids should be aware of dangers from strangers and a reminder now and then is no bad thing. But if this man has simply been spotted walking through Nobles Park by someone who knows of his crime, reported it to the newspapers, who then contacted the police asking for a statement then this is all hysterical overreaction. Add that to the likelihood of his crime simply being a case of one young man trying it on with another and it becomes full blown scaremongering. The newspapers are already wrongly terming him a "paedophile" - which is simple over-reaction and obvious stirring. The odds are the whole thing has been blown out of all proportion - after all, they're not gonna get much of a story out of "Man spotted walking on beach" are they. But as you keep repeating - you don't see the difference between him being 16 and being 22 when it happened, and think that there is no relevant difference between a member of the public spotting him and the police making a statement with no prompting - so what is the point of arguing with someone so blinkered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Perhaps a course in speed typing may help??? I'm a touch typer. I just have to stop often now because of my RSI. Maybe I should adapt a typing wand and fix it to my nose, that might be quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I can see why you're making a comparison with an adult having a relationship with a minor, it's almost a parallel case. </sarcasm> That was why I was wondering about the age of the perp when it happened. Is concentual sex between a 16 yo boy and a 15 yo girl OK, but if they're both boys then it's whole different ball game? I actually used to work with one of the guys too. Top bloke really, I'd have hired him myself if I ever needed someone to do that job for me I hesitate to ask what job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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