manxlennie Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 http://www.manxradio.com/CMSmr/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=5976 What exactly do they class as rush hour does anyone know? I was planning on getting season tickets so my family and I can travel without using the roads during TT, I do not fancy being stuck with two young children somewhere because I can't travel "during "rush hour"!!! ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I was planning on getting season tickets so my family and I can travel without using the roads during TT, I do not fancy being stuck with two young children somewhere because I can't travel "during "rush hour"!!!ML At £6 a day I'll be happily sat in my car or the bus thank you. No doubt they have modelled the price on the ridiculous £6 a day it costs to park in Douglas, but forgotten that most people can use the bus or an express coach for a hell of a lot less and they get a nice comfy seat without having their bones jolted for an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 My guess is that the train may be the only form of transport that will be able to move anywhere on the Island during the TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxlennie Posted May 20, 2007 Author Share Posted May 20, 2007 My guess is that the train may be the only form of transport that will be able to move anywhere on the Island during the TT. That was my thinking too ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Even at £6 the propect of travelling for 1 hour 45 minutes from Ramsey on the tram doesn't fill me with joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartT Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Even at £6 the propect of travelling for 1 hour 45 minutes from Ramsey on the tram doesn't fill me with joy 1hr 45??? Where do you get this from??? When I was last on them they were doing it in 1hr 10min. OK not exactly rocket speed (but still faster than "The Rocket" and probably faster than anything else in TT week on open roads!! Have the tourism department slowed them down even more, while bumping up the prices, to ensure that every local has an excuse for using their cars??? The problem with the Railways (and I am a supporter of their use as a commuter system), is that they are being run as a toy tourist curiosity, rather than as a proper railway system!!! I seem to recall hearing a running speed of 50MPH being feasable for the steam trains (never mind diesel bullet trains) on improved trackwork - they now have this trackwork, but due to government policy it's still being run as Thomas the Wank Engine and Friends!! By all means the heritage aspect should be preserved (though a lot of this has been removed anyway when the gas pipeline was built, but other avenues to ensure the longetivity of the systems should be explored. a £6 return is not a step in the right direction in my eyes - why didn't they consider other options like a discount for season ticket holders and a fortnight pass??? OK the MER is a different matter entirely as it's not exactly built for speed - a lot of curves there. Not sure what the theoretical max speed is for them on decent track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 OK not exactly rocket speed (but still faster than "The Rocket" and probably faster than anything else in TT week on open roads!! Have the tourism department slowed them down even more, while bumping up the prices, to ensure that every local has an excuse for using their cars??? Don't they already have amuch better excuse in that the steam train only runs once every two hours, and the electric railway has bugger all capacity - not much good for commuters en mass. You could run it as a proper rail system, but surely the need to accomodate extra capacity, more regular maintenance and line alterations would just bump up prices so people still wouldn't use it. Hasn't there already been a feasibility study conducted that found running the rail system as a proper commuter system wasn't financially viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 I'd bet no more than 20 people use the steam train to get to work during the TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartT Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 OK not exactly rocket speed (but still faster than "The Rocket" and probably faster than anything else in TT week on open roads!! Have the tourism department slowed them down even more, while bumping up the prices, to ensure that every local has an excuse for using their cars??? Don't they already have amuch better excuse in that the steam train only runs once every two hours, and the electric railway has bugger all capacity - not much good for commuters en mass. You could run it as a proper rail system, but surely the need to accomodate extra capacity, more regular maintenance and line alterations would just bump up prices so people still wouldn't use it. Hasn't there already been a feasibility study conducted that found running the rail system as a proper commuter system wasn't financially viable? Yes there was a study conducted,........however the greatest part of the calculated cost of that study was for modern stock specific to a 3ft Gauge and the Manx loading gauge - which would have to be built as a one off, and is what made the scheme unviable. What I am saying is that they should be looking at what they can do with what they've got - the greater part of the money has already been spent on modernising the railway - ie new trackwork for faster running etc (should this be wasted in running the Thomas the Wank Engine Pseudo historic railway?), this was done as part of the pipeline deal (amused by the comments earlier in the thread about being battered about in the carriage - this might have been true in the 80's, but not now). As the engines are capable of running at 50MPH on decent track (which they now have), the carriages are every bit as good for transporting a 21st C commuter as a 19th/20thC one, what's to stop the railways from being run as a proper transport system? Basically it boils down to a number of things:- 1) The hardest part - seperating the Manx Commuter from their beloved car 2)Making the system pay - basically you need to bring in the revenue to justify the expenditure - however I think it's better to tranport 6,000 people for £1, than 1000 people for £6. I don't see why you think increased numbers of passengers would increase the cost for the passengers themselves?? 3) The lack of drive to revitalise the railway system. 4)Pseudo excuses invented by people who want to create stumbling blocks - eg "The trains are too slow (see above - is 50MPH really too slow in an Island which is only 37 by 10??), they don't run at the right time (irrelevant, timetables and operating times can easily be altered for a proper commuter system). 5) Certain other issues - ie The trains don't go straight to the door - could be easily resolved with feeder busestaking passengers to specific stations (therefore could reduce the amount of stops by focussing more passengers on certain stations - eg all Pt St Mary Passengers to Port Erin, all Ballasall passengers to Castletown, no stop at Santon or Pt Soderick being necessary - this will increase running speeds. By the looks of things the government has gone 1/2 way - they've spent the largest amount of expenditure already - ie that of the trackwork etc, but then have suddenly lost sight of the goal at the last hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 It simply isn't inconvenient enough to drive into Douglas for a public transport alternative to be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddBod Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I think the police could encourage more people to use the available trains by employing the tactic of closing the surrounding roads for at least 4 hours every time there is a motor accident!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I'd bet no more than 20 people use the steam train to get to work during the TT. And they either work at Greens or the Railway station... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 2)Making the system pay - basically you need to bring in the revenue to justify the expenditure - however I think it's better to tranport 6,000 people for £1, than 1000 people for £6. I don't see why you think increased numbers of passengers would increase the cost for the passengers themselves?? Because if you want to make any dent whatsoever in traffic you have to target rush hour commuters. This means more frequent trains that can have greater capacity. More frequent travel means more maintenance on the track, larger capacity (and better quality) carriages, more staff, more cost which, given the sheer limitations of the rail system for serving commuters, has to either manifest in higher fares or be passed on to the tax payer. A commuter system, if to be of any value whatsoever, monetary, ecologically, or to an individuals needs, needs to be high density and frequency, and the Island's rail system can't deliver that. All the Island would get out of it is a pissy, yet expensive little noddy train that doesn't even begin to meet demand - justifying such expenditure is even harder when it could instead be spent improving the service and quality of the bus system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 2)Making the system pay - basically you need to bring in the revenue to justify the expenditure - however I think it's better to tranport 6,000 people for £1, than 1000 people for £6. I don't see why you think increased numbers of passengers would increase the cost for the passengers themselves?? Because if you want to make any dent whatsoever in traffic you have to target rush hour commuters. This means more frequent trains that can have greater capacity. More frequent travel means more maintenance on the track, larger capacity (and better quality) carriages, more staff, more cost which, given the sheer limitations of the rail system for serving commuters, has to either manifest in higher fares or be passed on to the tax payer. A commuter system, if to be of any value whatsoever, monetary, ecologically, or to an individuals needs, needs to be high density and frequency, and the Island's rail system can't deliver that. All the Island would get out of it is a pissy, yet expensive little noddy train that doesn't even begin to meet demand - justifying such expenditure is even harder when it could instead be spent improving the service and quality of the bus system. 'Service' and 'quality' in the same sentence as 'the bus system'! Now that's clever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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