John Wright Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Thats no different to what I have posted. The law, as it stands, refers to effective control. That menas in reality on a lead. The words on a lead are not used because you may habe adog on a lead and not be in effective control, or you may execrise effective control in another way The most effective control is on a short lead. A long lead, one that runs out and extends may not be effective. effective control is narrower than on a lead in that sense but if you can think of a method of eefctive control which does not involve a lead, then it might be wider in that sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 It is very often the dogs that are always on a lead and not allowed to exercise properly that attack junior members of the household. Think of the drug dealers swaggering along with a dog on a short lead. Those dogs are never allowed to run off any energy and appear to take it out on children. To condem all dogs to a life plodding along at 3mph could cause more trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Ideally I think that Owners should be Licenced not the dog, however this would never be the case due to cost. As I've said before, you're more than likely to get an bad owner than a bad dog. PS; I see the Siberian is now the " Fashion Dog ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thats no different to what I have posted. The law, as it stands, refers to effective control. That menas in reality on a lead. The words on a lead are not used because you may habe adog on a lead and not be in effective control, or you may execrise effective control in another way The most effective control is on a short lead. A long lead, one that runs out and extends may not be effective. effective control is narrower than on a lead in that sense but if you can think of a method of eefctive control which does not involve a lead, then it might be wider in that sense at last, 'effective control', BUT that does not mean 'on a lead' in law.. it would be a reasonable assumption to think 'in reality'it does, but it does not. it SHOULD i agree. i suggest you contact the legal bods in dolge, they can give you a DEFINITIVE meaning as to meaning of 'effective control' in the dogs act, then you can come back on here and tell all i'm correct and it doesn't mean dogs on leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posters Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Some people have excellent control of theirs dogs off the lead. If that control is total and effective why would the owner nead to have that dog on a lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Some people have excellent control of theirs dogs off the lead. If that control is total and effective why would the owner nead to have that dog on a lead? exactly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 My big dog is actually more under my control off the lead, than on it. Although I don't walk him on the street off the lead. But if we are in an open space he will skid to turn round if he is called back, and will leave a particularly interesting sniff (another dog's backside, dog poo or something else tantalising only to dogs) with only a click. But, put a lead on him and he pulls something wicked. Tried everything, but he is definitely happier and more attuned to me off the lead. I suppose it is to do with a little dog pyschology in that on the lead he knows he is connected to me and so safe, but off the lead he has to pay attention to me all the time to feel secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not the Comfy Chair Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Although I know what you mean Gladys, your dog, and I am sure he is as sweet and well-behaved as his owner, is definitely under greater control when he is on the lead. Put simply, he can't run off if he is on the lead. Like humans, even the most predictable dogs can behave out of character if stressed. A dog on a lead may be braver, even more aggressive, but he is under the control of the person with the lead who will stop him from doing anything he shouldn't. Note - except where references are made specifically to Gladys's dog, all references apply to both genders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Yes, I understand your point NTCC, which is why I always walk him on the lead on streets. The point I was making was that being on a lead doesn't really mean it is under your control. I can't count how many times I have seen owners with dogs on leads just drop the lead when a dog fight starts. The dog is already stressed at being restrained (and feels disadvantaged if another dog 'looks at him the wrong way'; it does happen), adrenaline has rushed and then the lead is let go! I am not suggesting for one moment that off the lead dogs are safer, I am just pointing out the stupidity of the rules. Far better, as has been said above, that owners are licensed. In contrast, we also have a very elderly (14) terrier cross. Lovely dog with humans, but a real gnasher with other dogs. She is about a fifth of the size of our Lab, and I can scoop her up with one hand. But let her off the lead? No way! She wanders off without any thought for where we are, will lay into any dog of any size like a little ginger exocet and is now deaf! So I would happily say that she is not under my control except when connected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 " My dog is better behaved off the lead than on it. It allows the dog to be more free " Absolute bullshit. The reason people say that is because they don't like being pulled all over the place, and yet do nothing about it , so they let the dog off the lead. IF, these people actually gave up their own time and TRAINED the dog properly then it would be just as good on the lead as off it. However this is NOT usually the case but they still think there're great dog people, YOU'RE NOT!!!! A dog should be able to handle all that it is exposed to, ( usually), and that is how you should socialice the dog. If you don't bring the dog up that way and then expose it to things it's not used to, anything can happen. Yet people still think off them as having human instincts. They're not, they're an animal with animal instincts but to many times people treat them as a cuddly friend without ever understanding the make-up off " The Pack " of the dog family set up. I'm sick the back teeth off hearing and reading about people and dogs yet very very few actually understand the make-up off dog. If you have a dog, they look to you for instruction from a pup. You're their mum. Any bad habits a dog has comes mostly from, if not all, from YOU. So if you have a dog that has bad habits, is not good on a lead, is aggressive, possesive, dominant, then look to yourselves, not the dog , becuase YOU are to blame as the owner. (Rant over and soap box put away for tonight ) PS; Yes I do have dogs and i'm up at 6AM every morning to clean them out and then walk them. Do You ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan wind Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 I'm one of the 'it's the owners, not the dogs' crowd, although I don't much like dogs in general. Owners of potentially dangerous(yes I know, they all are - but some more so) breeds of dog should be background checked, then checked again over the first couple of years of ownership. This is of course, if they aren't already. I don't know, since I've not owned one... It should also be made legal to punch/kick any dog that runs up to you and barks, or runs up to a gate you're walking past and barks/growls. Is that legal already?... [/Winky] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 It should also be made legal to punch/kick any dog that runs up to you and barks, or runs up to a gate you're walking past and barks/growls. Is that legal already?... I'm not sure. Going back about 15 years a neighbours Alsatian just went mental as I was walking past his house and ran down the path and bit me. I proceeded to kick it very hard in the balls until it stopped. At this stage dickhead owner went loopy and threatened to take me to the police and the RSPCA for animal abuse completely ignoring the fact that his uncontrolled animal made a totally unprovoked attack on me. I never heard anything more, but often wondered what the legal status is. If a guy in a pub walked up to you and punched you in the face without provocation self defence and reasonable restraint would seem to be adequate defences. Not sure with animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 PS; Yes I do have dogs and i'm up at 6AM every morning to clean them out and then walk them. Do You ? Yes, although I do not have to clean them out as they are fully house trained! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 There is a simple way to control dangerous dogs: Any dog weighing more tha 15lb at maturity should be charged a £500 licence fee, anything over 25lb an extra £25 per lb Of course nothing will be done about dangerous dogs because MHKs are afraid of losing the dog owner vote Anyone who feels that they need a pit bull terrier or similar should seek counselling or alternatively, should be shot in the back of the head and dumped in a lime pit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 The trouble is once you start banning things that are a bit dangerous now and again where do you stop? You might as well ban electricity or swimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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