Tt Pushers In Schools.

[Observer]

Now, I don't want to pick on Steve Harper, I don't even know him, but there was a story in this week's Courier about him showing off his racing bike at Manor Park School. The children were apparently thrilled when he revved the engine, lol... Am I alone in finding this sort of thing highly distasteful, even a little macabre? I'm glad I don't have children attending this school, although it wouldn't seem so bad if parents were given an opt out. Were they?

 

 

I confess that I have only read part of the thread (out of touch as already confessed in another thread) but the subject matter was somewhat poignant to me. A couple of years ago a visiting racer put in a guest appearance at my children's school (Vallajeelt) - they were quite thrilled and found the whole thing exciting and pictures were taken, talks given etc... Unfortunately, the poor chap was killed in the races and my kids were really rather shaken by it - the fact that they had met and chatted to him really brought the whole experience a little closer to home than I would have liked, given the choice. In fact, had I been given the choice I might have turned it down for this very reason.... but perhaps this wise choice is with the benefit of hindsight.

[Gladys]

I don't agree Observer. Death is a very hard concept for children to understand, but keeping the prospect away from them doesn't help. The TT is all around our children and, hard lesson as it may be, perhaps it is as well that instead of just hearing statistics on the radio, they actually understand what it means when 'rider killed on Mountain course' comes over the air waves. You know, that a living breathing person with whom I have interacted has died and is no more (that is the difficult aspect of death, I think, for children, and adults).

 

In your own example, it was awfully immediate that your children met the rider and then heard that he had died, and dreadful that they were shaken. If it was either of my two I would have been concerned about how it was affecting them too. But that is what life is about, this is how we learn to deal with things; by remote, vicarious experience. It is the first exposure to a death that prepares them for a death nearer to home.

 

I can still clearly remeber the Aberfan disaster and the emotions that I had as a very little child (a school devastated by a slag heap and not really understanding how being buried could kill you). But I suppose that laid the foundations for an emotional response to later, more proximate events.

 

Take that 'safe' exposure away and what preparation for the real big event have we given our children?

[keyboarder]

I don't agree Observer. Death is a very hard concept for children to understand, but keeping the prospect away from them doesn't help. The TT is all around our children and, hard lesson as it may be, perhaps it is as well that instead of just hearing statistics on the radio, they actually understand what it means when 'rider killed on Mountain course' comes over the air waves. You know, that a living breathing person with whom I have interacted has died and is no more (that is the difficult aspect of death, I think, for children, and adults).

 

In your own example, it was awfully immediate that your children met the rider and then heard that he had died, and dreadful that they were shaken. If it was either of my two I would have been concerned about how it was affecting them too. But that is what life is about, this is how we learn to deal with things; by remote, vicarious experience. It is the first exposure to a death that prepares them for a death nearer to home.

 

I can still clearly remeber the Aberfan disaster and the emotions that I had as a very little child (a school devastated by a slag heap and not really understanding how being buried could kill you). But I suppose that laid the foundations for an emotional response to later, more proximate events.

 

Take that 'safe' exposure away and what preparation for the real big event have we given our children?

 

Mmm. By your (imo, seriously flawed) logic perhaps we should have the local winos go into schools to teach kids how to get leathered more efficiently, or some 60 a day smokers on how to acclimatise themselves to a habit that isn't really part of their nature. As for the Aberfan tragedy, well I fail to see any relevance of that whatsoever.

[Mr. Sausages]

Death is a very hard concept for children to understand, but keeping the prospect away from them doesn't help.

 

But, not glamourising what is an extremely dangerous activity doesn't mean you're keeping the true facts of life hidden from them. It means you're not exposing them to an unneccessary trauma, that has a relatively high percentage of happening. We don't need the TT to educate our kids about death. That's what the Lion King is for.

[ccm]

What about the children's innocence in all of this?

 

Do they have to be exposed to a world of death, paedophilia, war, etc

 

Is it better that they're told about these things from an early age?

 

What are kids being told about Maddie McCann?

 

I can see both arguments but for me I think it's better to find out when you're around 11/12 than 5/6

[Lonan3]

When I was at primary school, I used to hang around the Grandstand during practice week collecting autographs that I'd later swap for football/cricket cards. It didn't take long to realise that the autograph of someone who'd been killed or injured gained an 'extra' value.

Apart from that, I don't think we had any real concept of what 'death' meant. It was something we heard about - and that some of our friends had closer experience of - but it didn't have any deeper meaning than that. Sometimes, I think we underestimate the resilience of young children; the thing that devastates them today is more or less forgotten by tomorrow and I don't think that introducing them to TT competitors, allowing them to sit on the bikes, or listening to the roar of the engines will have any lasting effect on them.

[ccm]

Then why bother telling them?

[Lost Login]

In general I agree. My five year old came home from school full of the TT and certain names. Every time she heard the name of them on the radio she listened and I did not want to have to tell X or Y had died. In my opinion I am not overly protective of my child, she understands death in her iwn way from pets, insects animals dying. But equally she is a five year old child with a childs innocence. I am not going to go out of my way to spoil that and make her grow up too fast.

 

I am not a huge supporter of the TT as I have said openly before. I love the atmosphere but I believe that the racing etc is now too dangerous for our roads considering the speed and power of the bikes etc.

I have no problem with the TT being taught at school and its place in Manx's history etc. But I do have some concerns how it appears to have been put over in the schools to those of 5/6 which is my daughters age. Talking to her and hearing her and her friends talk about the TT when ferrying around in TT week all they seemed to have been told about was the glamour and excitement of the event by riders and supporters.

 

I would not want them to have gone into the more morbid elements in detail, presumably though Gladys would as it would be good for them to learn and maybe she would be favour of a few gruesome pictures to really rub the lesson in, but I would have liked them to be left understanding that it is a dangerous and risky event. They might have been told this but they do not appear to be remember if they have. She talked alot about "Milky" Quayle but as far as she is concerned he stopped racing as his wife asked him to after he fell off his motorbike. The falling off the motorbike being on par with her falling off her bicycle when learning to ride it.

 

So in essence I have and had no problem with the TT being "taught" in school but I think it could have been a bit more rounded. What went on seems to have been a promotion of the TT more than anything else.

 

What about the children's innocence in all of this?

 

Do they have to be exposed to a world of death, paedophilia, war, etc

 

Is it better that they're told about these things from an early age?

 

What are kids being told about Maddie McCann?

 

I can see both arguments but for me I think it's better to find out when you're around 11/12 than 5/6

[John Wright]

I just think we have got two topics very confused here.

 

I am happy for TT riders to take bikes into school, I think it is educational. It is different to taking in smokers or wino's. The death rate from biking as opposed to the other two, which are health issues, is infinitesimally small.

 

I think we should lighten up.

 

As for a childs cocept of death I feel we are being overprotective. By time I was 8 and my sister 5 we had lost a grandmother to a car accident, my best school friend and near neighbour, with whom I plpayed had just not woken up one morning and my mother had died of cancer.

 

I knew what death was, it was irreversible and the person was not there any more. Of course I was affected. I doubt that many will not have had similar experiences. Kids are a lot more savvy than we sometimes credit them for, they don't need or want excuses or the truth hidden.

 

What is more they are resilient. They bounce back.

 

Historically a chilsd would have experienced the death of half a dozen siblings by 18. They coped.

 

They see death on TV every day. They cope, they are coping now, do you discuss with them. Is that your fear or theirs? fAnd I bet they know the difference between real deaths in the news and on TV fiction. That's more than some adults!

[Cambon]

This whole thread is very interesting. At first I thought - Oh no, not another Keyboarder Thread!

 

I have read it through and have come up with more questions than answers.

 

The TT is dangerous, very dangerous. However, how many Manxies actually go on to race in it? Considering the size of the population, and the fact that motorcycle racing is essentially THE local sport, not that many. To reach the level required to race in the TT takes many years and few racers reach that standard.

 

So, is motorcycle racing (in general) dangerous? Yes, moderately. I mean, Jurby Airfield has racing quite frequently, but it is quite rare that someone is serously injured.

 

We live on a beautiful Island, surrounded by water. Last week we had an excellent series of races when the Honda 4 stroke power boats were here. How many kids were watching that and thinking - When I grow up....

 

Powerboat racing is another dangerous sport, very dangerous. Much slower than the TT but the chances of being KO'd and drowning are very much there. In fact last Saturday I was watching and saw a boat flip over whilst racing. The two occupants appeared to be ok, but I heard no mention of their condition on the commentary.

 

If they had taken one of those 225 power boats around the schools, would Keyboarder feel the same way? The point is it would (could) make the children aware of both the excitement and dangers involved, not only within powerboat racing but water sports in general, possibly giving one or two of them more respect for the sea.

 

Personally, I think anything these days that opens kids eyes to the fact that there are dangers out there are a good thing and should be encouraged.

[Observer]

I don't agree Observer. Death is a very hard concept for children to understand, but keeping the prospect away from them doesn't help. The TT is all around our children and, hard lesson as it may be, perhaps it is as well that instead of just hearing statistics on the radio, they actually understand what it means when 'rider killed on Mountain course' comes over the air waves. You know, that a living breathing person with whom I have interacted has died and is no more (that is the difficult aspect of death, I think, for children, and adults).

I do understand your point, however, being the adult reponsible for overseeing their emotional wellbeing and upbringing, I really do feel that it should be my choice if and when they are exposed to it, particularly as TT riders are statistically high risk in terms of death. It's my choice how the concept of death is introduced and dealt with in my family, not the board of education's. For a young child who had not had the benefit (bad word under the circumstances) of some prior family experience, this might be entirely inappropriate and completely avoidable.

[Lonan3]

To be honest, I don't think young children really have a proper concept of 'death' any more than they do of 'happy ever after.' To them, a day is a long time, a year is an age, and becoming an adult is an eternity away.

There are so many things that, as parents, we feel that we ought to be protecting them from but, in most cases, they will simply shrug off information that isn't really relevant to them and be unaffected by it.

The TT is an event that, to a greater or lesser degree, affects the lives of all of us on the island, so its reasonable to offer them an explanation of what its all about and give them some information on its history etc. Bringing the bikes into school may be a little OTT - especially if the glamour of racing is overemphasised at the expense of the inherent dangers - but I think its far more objectionable to teach them that there is a wonderful life to come after death when it really isn't provable in any way.

 

PS. Welcome back Obs - you've been away far too long!

[Gladys]

In response to all those that opposed my earlier post, I will make it quite clear that I am not proposing that the concept of death be foisted on to children in schools, or that TT riders should be allowed into schools solely because it introduces the concept of death to schoolchildren. What I am saying is that the death aspect is an unfortunate, but not inevitable, complication which shouldn't overshadow the decision. If the rider does die, it is very unfortunate, will be upsetting for the children, but it is another lesson in life.

 

Someone above said that their children learn about death from the death of a pet. Well, I agree, but I would also hazard that the deathe of a much loved pet will be more upsetting to a child than the death of a TT rider who they met briefly at school.

 

Without wishing to sound harsh; shit happens, it is learning to deal with it that is the key.

[Observer]

PS. Welcome back Obs - you've been away far too long!

Why thank you... cheers bud

 

Without wishing to sound harsh; shit happens, it is learning to deal with it that is the key.

For as long as I'm responsible for them I'll try and make sure unnecessary 'shit' doesn't happen to them... that's my job... they'll have long enough for shit to happen to them in their grown up lives. Having said that, I do try to prepare and teach them how to deal with it through the benefit of watching the endless crap I and others close to them have no choice but to wade through, combined with guidance on their own first hand experiences. Bargain basement cotton wool if you like....

[Cambon]

For as long as I'm responsible for them I'll try and make sure unnecessary 'shit' doesn't happen to them... that's my job... they'll have long enough for shit to happen to them in their grown up lives. Having said that, I do try to prepare and teach them how to deal with it through the benefit of watching the endless crap I and others close to them have no choice but to wade through, combined with guidance on their own first hand experiences. Bargain basement cotton wool if you like....

 

This is one of the key areas where Britain differs from the rest of Europe. Jamie Oliver hit the nail on the head when he did his tour of Italy. Italian children learn from a very young age about food and where it comes from, whether it be vegitable or animal. They understand that when they have a piece of meat on their plate an animal had to die for it to be there. Therefore much less is wasted. They eat parts of the animal that we would not dream of. When was the last time a school over here had a field trip to the slaughter house? A chicken farm? Even a dairy farm? These are the realities of life, like it or not.

 

After having the TT zoom around for two weeks, and in particular, two weeks holiday this year, Did a school visit actually make a difference as to whether the kids all want to become TT racers or not? Somehow I doubt it. Seeing the bikes and meeting the riders would give the kids an inside look at what goes on. That it is more than just 1 hour 47 minutes of speed. Surely that is a good thing?