Eyewitness Accounts - And Privacy

[Albert Tatlock]

There are signs everywhere stating that 'motorsport is dangerous'. Tragic though this was, people have to take responsibility for thir own lives. If you want to watch half a ton of bike doing 200 mph - and you know 223 riders have been killed in 100 years - there is a probability of some danger at a variety of vantage points around the TT course, including if a bike hits somewhere and flies off in another direction. So be informed of the risk and aware of the consequences.

 

This is the same for rallying etc. where many other spectators have lost their lives.

 

Why do people watch at various viewpoints? Because it is exciting and they can watch it! If you don't like risk then stay at home. And...if you are really paranoid don't sit near where the marshals sit (bikes or cars) - because marshals are there for a reason.

 

The TT will overcome this tragedy as it has others. I have relatives that ride in the TT, one of whom I spoke to tonight, and this changes nothing for him. Long live the TT and all that it stands for. And death to the nanny state.

[bluemonday]

Some very well thought out posts. I'd just like to make a few comments generally. The Net is the great rumour mill. BUT also often the first point for info - look at the US message boards after the last US college shootings. Not that relevant to this particular acident maybe but nowadays accidents/events everywhere frequently get massive exposure/comment/etc online before the conventional media reacts. Some of it over the top and insensitive. But I feel the forum here has got it right. Respect for those involved in the tragedy should come first. Having said that, the references to the demise of other forums troubles me - as does googles' chinese climbdown. The net is the last frontier for freedom of thought and expression. Long may it stay that way. Self regulation avoids government interference - hopefully!

As Albert says - Long live the TT and death to the nanny state.

[WTF]

it seems we can comment on issues far away in an apparently insensitive manner, but when its on our doorstep and more relevent to us it's tiptoes please?? people will always gossip whether online or not, and it won't change the truth of the situation one bit. it may bring to the publics attention, facts that would not get released otherwise because it would not be deemed in the publics interest by those that know the facts but won't tell. bad publicity, expose the shortcomings of the system in place etc. i would guess that the prepared successful TT statement has had to be retyped at the 11th hour.

None of the above means i don't sympathise with all those people, victims, family members and friends and anyone else that it has affected. i do. it was a tragedy. but not talking about it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. rarely do you hear on manx radio when it comes to the TT repeated reminders on the news of what happened and who is dead. but when it comes to the 2 kids murdered in 'care'!! years later when ever the place is mentioned you get reminded of samantha barton and george green. when a biker crashes and is killed at wherever location they don't list every person thats been killed there in the past too.

[Lonan3]

People will always talk about such things. By last night, I was already hearing rumours - now proved totally false - about the identity of the spectators involved. Thankfully, we have intelligent moderators on these forums who would prevent such rumours being aired here - it is one of the reasons why I enjoy reading most of the posts here.

Speculation, when the facts are sure to be revealed eventually, does not help anyone. As for eyewitness reports, as someone else has said, any genuine one should be given to the relevant authorities and, before posting anything of the kind, it would be worth considering whether it really was serving any purpose other than inflating the self-importance of such a witness to record it on a public forum.

I'm sure that a time will come, before long, when it will be appropriate to discuss what happened and what can be done to prevent any future recurrence of such an incident. But that time is a little way off yet, I'd suggest.

[Amadeus]

Speculation, when the facts are sure to be revealed eventually, does not help anyone. As for eyewitness reports, as someone else has said, any genuine one should be given to the relevant authorities and, before posting anything of the kind, it would be worth considering whether it really was serving any purpose other than inflating the self-importance of such a witness to record it on a public forum.

I'm sure that a time will come, before long, when it will be appropriate to discuss what happened and what can be done to prevent any future recurrence of such an incident. But that time is a little way off yet, I'd suggest.

Seconded

 

As to the rumours - a few already found their way to the trash can yesterday - and they were indeed totally wrong..

[localyokel]

I'm sure that a time will come, before long, when it will be appropriate to discuss what happened and what can be done to prevent any future recurrence of such an incident. But that time is a little way off yet, I'd suggest.

 

I agree. But at the moment the urge to partake in electronic "rubber-necking" seems to have gripped some people. Its a terrible tragedy. Condolences to all involved.

[spermann]

There are signs everywhere stating that 'motorsport is dangerous'. Tragic though this was, people have to take responsibility for thir own lives. If you want to watch half a ton of bike doing 200 mph - and you know 223 riders have been killed in 100 years - there is a probability of some danger at a variety of vantage points around the TT course, including if a bike hits somewhere and flies off in another direction. So be informed of the risk and aware of the consequences.

 

This is the same for rallying etc. where many other spectators have lost their lives.

 

Why do people watch at various viewpoints? Because it is exciting and they can watch it! If you don't like risk then stay at home. And...if you are really paranoid don't sit near where the marshals sit (bikes or cars) - because marshals are there for a reason.

 

The TT will overcome this tragedy as it has others. I have relatives that ride in the TT, one of whom I spoke to tonight, and this changes nothing for him. Long live the TT and all that it stands for. And death to the nanny state.

 

Albert - really well put, it is tragic what has happened but things need to be left in perspective. My thoughts go out to family and friends involved, and the other spectators who witnessed this accident.

[ponderer]

Speculation, when the facts are sure to be revealed eventually, does not help anyone. As for eyewitness reports, as someone else has said, any genuine one should be given to the relevant authorities and, before posting anything of the kind, it would be worth considering whether it really was serving any purpose other than inflating the self-importance of such a witness to record it on a public forum.

I'm sure that a time will come, before long, when it will be appropriate to discuss what happened and what can be done to prevent any future recurrence of such an incident. But that time is a little way off yet, I'd suggest.

Seconded

 

As to the rumours - a few already found their way to the trash can yesterday - and they were indeed totally wrong..

Agreed.

 

So can we give all this stuff about 'death to the nanny state' a rest until the time comes "before long, when it will be appropriate to discuss what happened and what can be done to prevent any future recurrence.... " please...?

[Max Power]

Yes, there is very little point in discussion, but it is understandable that people should be concerned or want to comment. This type of accident has happened on short circuits in the recent past and of course in car rallying on many occasions, so it is best to wait until the facts are made public before perhaps assuming any liability or problems for the event.

[Lost Login]

I think they will be more concerned and want to comment when the information comes public but the problem with events such as this was well summarised by a biker and Marshall on the IoMTT forum website when they comment on the lack of official information comeing out. Nature abhours a vacum but in the absence of official information rumours spread. This does not just relate to the deaths on Friday, one marshal relates after seeing a guy come off there was no way to follow up to see how that guy is. That is not a morbid interest just an interest in a competitors wellfare.

 

I believe I am aware of some of the aspects in respect of the Friday incident but as I was not in attendance or an official whilst I am 99.99% confident of their accuracy I will presently not post. That is for others to do so or who were there or have been presented the facts. I am sure many more are in a similar situation. However whilst there is a lack of public information being made available and a demand for it then the chances of "stuff" being put out their increases. Some I am sure is being discussed openly in conversation if not written down on Forums.

 

Some matters though are I believe are or will be a matter of concern and as I said for the present I would not want to set a hare running on these. However that is only for the present as I believe the relevant parties have a duty to disclose what they can and they should be given the opportunity. However if I feel that they are hiding behind non disclose as a way to protect their own backsides and deflect critisism then my view on posting what could be potentially upsetting comments would change.

 

Presently I am not sure whether the lack of comments on the issue is out of respect for the dead and injured, in the hope and expectation that soon official information will be provided so it would be inproper to raise questions and concerns until then or to protect the reputation of the TT. I am happy to respect the first two but as for the latter if it is not able to stand up to critisism in the public eye then it is not for for purpose in my opinion.

 

Yes, there is very little point in discussion, but it is understandable that people should be concerned or want to comment. This type of accident has happened on short circuits in the recent past and of course in car rallying on many occasions, so it is best to wait until the facts are made public before perhaps assuming any liability or problems for the event.

[Max Power]

I think they will be more concerned and want to comment when the information comes public but the problem with events such as this was well summarised by a biker and Marshall on the IoMTT forum website when they comment on the lack of official information comeing out. Nature abhours a vacum but in the absence of official information rumours spread. This does not just relate to the deaths on Friday, one marshal relates after seeing a guy come off there was no way to follow up to see how that guy is. That is not a morbid interest just an interest in a competitors wellfare.

 

I believe I am aware of some of the aspects in respect of the Friday incident but as I was not in attendance or an official whilst I am 99.99% confident of their accuracy I will presently not post. That is for others to do so or who were there or have been presented the facts. I am sure many more are in a similar situation. However whilst there is a lack of public information being made available and a demand for it then the chances of "stuff" being put out their increases. Some I am sure is being discussed openly in conversation if not written down on Forums.

 

Some matters though are I believe are or will be a matter of concern and as I said for the present I would not want to set a hare running on these. However that is only for the present as I believe the relevant parties have a duty to disclose what they can and they should be given the opportunity. However if I feel that they are hiding behind non disclose as a way to protect their own backsides and deflect critisism then my view on posting what could be potentially upsetting comments would change.

 

Presently I am not sure whether the lack of comments on the issue is out of respect for the dead and injured, in the hope and expectation that soon official information will be provided so it would be inproper to raise questions and concerns until then or to protect the reputation of the TT. I am happy to respect the first two but as for the latter if it is not able to stand up to critisism in the public eye then it is not for for purpose in my opinion.

 

Yes, there is very little point in discussion, but it is understandable that people should be concerned or want to comment. This type of accident has happened on short circuits in the recent past and of course in car rallying on many occasions, so it is best to wait until the facts are made public before perhaps assuming any liability or problems for the event.

 

I am pretty certain that in this case it was a freak accident and there is not any cause to feel that there is any cover up of any kind.

 

It is purely out of respect and in order to ensure an unbiased investigation be held, I'm sure, that nothing has been published.

[Lost Login]

Let me make my previous posting clear. I am sure that it was a freak accident and I am sure there will be no kind of cover up. I am also sure that by now with prelimary investigations complete the relevant parties have a pretty good idea of what happened and why the consequences were more severe in this case than in previous accidents. I do not see why some of the prelimary results can not be said.

 

I am now going to be very careful in what I say. In any accident the cause and effect can be affected by many variables. I have been unfortunate to be in a couple of serious accidents in my life but fortunately I have walked away unscathed on both occasions. Both you could describe as freak accidents but the cause and consequences of each could have been different. They were also a culmination of things which all combined resulted in the accident. If one variable had been missing then the acidents may not have occured. Some of these could have been affected by human factors i.e road planning, road condition. e.g if I approached a sharp dangerous bend in the road and there was no warning or speed restriction and as a consequence I had an accident I may be able to claim that the other party bore some part of the resonsibility for the crash. Equally if in a motorsport event nobody put the appropriate warning flags out and somebody crashed as a result then there may be the possibility of a claim

 

I am not saying either is relevant in the above and whilst there may or may not be such contributing causes in this accident and I am sure all will be looked to ensure it is not the case and lessons can be built for the future. But in hindsight there can always be lessons learnt but in our current litigeous age especially with the current claim and blame culture the accusation is that these lessons could have been forseen and did not require hindsight. That is often for a court to decide. There is obvioulsy a concern in publishing such thoughts or findings as you can lay yourself open to a potential claim no matter how remote. I get a feeling that presently that in respect of the TT it is the protection of the TT's reputation in the eyes of the "foreign" media and ensuring there is nothing reported which can be used by the "anti" lobby that takes priority. My perception may be wrong but I would not mind seeing a little bit more openness and that we take the good with the bad.

 

 

I am pretty certain that in this case it was a freak accident and there is not any cause to feel that there is any cover up of any kind.

 

It is purely out of respect and in order to ensure an unbiased investigation be held, I'm sure, that nothing has been published.

[Twitch]

Excellent post