Albert Tatlock Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 See MR: The Department of Transport has signed up a Jersey company to help revamp its vehicle registration and licensing systems. Teleologica will take charge of the project, consisting of two phases which should take roughly eight months to complete. Phase 1 of the contract includes designing the system and building a series of prototypes to be tested during Autumn this year. The project should provide a better user interface, search functionality, better data accuracy, and automated calculation of duty. Phase 2 will introduce internet services including the ability to pay vehicle duty online. It is envisaged that the system will be ready to go live in January 2008. There are plenty of business process/software development companies on the Isle of Man who could develop this. Why is this going to a Jersey company to be prototyped and developed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Competitive tendering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Albert you should know one thing about the manx they hate loyalty lol I think the way the government seem to give the money to off island companies is getting beyond a joke. Time to KEEP IT LOCAL as they seem to spout all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Competitive tendering? From what I can see it is based on 'previous experience'. But it's just a database and an online payment system based on an existing system which has to link to systems here - systems which have been designed/developed here. I can't see that it would be cheaper to fly analysts and developers over from Jersey (the number of trips/hotels they would likely have to make), then there is the issues of maintenance and ongoing costs. I know the government isn't the best at procuring software, but I'm sure a cheaper, and more importantly, a local supplier could have been found, even if that meant expanding a local company. I suspect these are issues of project management, software development knowledge and procurement ability underlying this decision. IMO Government should be spending tax payers money locally - as they also get a return on expenditures such as this through taxation, whilst helping to expand the sector. Such a system is not rocket science, and with experience of developing such a system here, then a local company can go off and sell that experience elsewhere to other countires with a weaker software sector. We should be encouraging software and other hi-tech companies to be here and to be expanding. If it was done through competitive tendering then surely this does not bode well for the industry here if they aren't in a position to undertake such work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 There are plenty of business process/software development companies on the Isle of Man who could develop this. Why is this going to a Jersey company to be prototyped and developed? I thought the same when I seen that. First impressions would suggest it's a fairly straight forward project, and one I would guess local companies would handle with ease. Maybe teleologica have a background with similar projects. Good ole' Google suggests that for some projects they out-source their development to the Ukraine. That's not a bad thing from a technical perspective, Eleks seem to be very competant - but I'd prefer software projects, certainly Government ones to be done locally. It is a dilemma though, more so if local companies put in stupid quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Very true there concrete, if some of these local companies want to compete its time they were not so greedy. I know for a fact that a lot of companies over here are earning good money and not having to work for it. The only good thing with local companies is they are not far if something needs fixing or updating. I would rather see local companies earning them money. As for government tendering lol don't make me laugh there is very little of that going on i know for a fact. What the government tend to do is seek out the best people in the sector, if the government issued a tender they have to put it in the local papers, and for the work that goes on over here i.e iris and the like you never see anything in the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 As for government tendering lol don't make me laugh there is very little of that going on i know for a fact. That was my next question - how does the tendering process work? Are they required to put projects such as these out to tender, is their a contractors registrar, or can they just go knocking on doors and approach individual firms? I guess the same applies to the construction industry as it does the IT sector - afterall, its a project with an end-product. You see the odd tender in the paper now and again (provide vehicles, cleaning services etc) but nothing related to IT. I'd be keen to see them encouraging local firms, and more importantly local talent - students at the college etc, graduating into local IT firms and training them up. From what I understand there are certain shortages in the IT sector, and many firms are looking to the UK for staff. Shame really - because I'm certainly there's a load of people wanting a career in IT, probably very talented but are missing opportunities. (Likewise, there's probably a load of stale staff sitting happy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scittney Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 what a joke. sounds like a pretty straight forward database, would take me two months for them to have a completed system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 It might have been a 3-quote job rather than a formal tender process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'm always lost on these decisions. The post office do a good job on this at the moment. It might help the motor trade but but how many people, particularly older people who make up a good proportion of the population, would do their car tax online? I like using the post office and all these automated paying facilities marginalise the elderly, and others who don't use computers to manage their bills etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I don't see a problem, they obviously went for the best quote both in terms of cost and delivery. The government looking after our money. Pity a local company didn't get it but so what? do you want a competitive industry or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 This is generating similar arguments to the ones surrounding the contracts for the redevelopment of the House of Keys and the prison construction. I totally understand the value for money aspect and in some cases the need for specialist help. Following on from your argument though - I would imagine 'all' software development, telephone support etc (and any other jobs that don't necessarily need a physical presence) would be better served elsewhere. e.g. The development of the government website, ad-hoc programming projects etc. Certain countries (Russian, Eastern Europe and India) have a wealth of talent and cheap labour (compared to the UK) - you give them a project spec, and they do it. Cost effective, yes, but you good argue whether it's the best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 This is generating similar arguments to the ones surrounding the contracts for the redevelopment of the House of Keys and the prison construction. I totally understand the value for money aspect and in some cases the need for specialist help. Following on from your argument though - I would imagine 'all' software development, telephone support etc (and any other jobs that don't necessarily need a physical presence) would be better served elsewhere. e.g. The development of the government website, ad-hoc programming projects etc. Certain countries (Russian, Eastern Europe and India) have a wealth of talent and cheap labour (compared to the UK) - you give them a project spec, and they do it. Cost effective, yes, but you good argue whether it's the best solution. I think the main question is should the issue of whether a company is local (as in on-island) or not be assessed in the criteria? Personally, I think it should (especially for a government tender) along with all the other considerations. With a software project, the main overhead is labour and undoubtedly this applies more than most other projects. As protectionist as it sounds, but a lot of the money will then go back into the island's economy (of which it is one of the government's objectives to consider), and be recirculated. The company also has a lot more to risk with a local project (provided it is not a phantom company) I only believe it should be a consideration and not a requirement, and this probably means that a lot of officials would ignore it for 'knowing better'. There's also the issue of what is 'local' or not, would you consider MT/the Steam Packet as local firms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I think in the UK, Government tenders involve pre-qualification, which establish whether the tenderer meets certain minimum requirements (anything ranging from capitalisation, to insurance held, qualifications of key staff, holding some kind of nationally recognised certification, etc.). Only once you pre-qualified would you be invited to tender for the specific contract. That way they cut out the deadwood and unsuitable tenderers. Is there a formal tendering process for any of the IOM Government contracts that are let? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 would you consider MT/the Steam Packet as local firms? Yes and no. Ultimately the profits go elsewhere, but I would prefer to give my money to a firm who has a local presence and provides jobs for Islanders. Although part of the British Isles, the Isle of Man is not part of the UK and does not have to follow the same procurement rules, Paterson explained. It is under no obligation to consider open source, or even to open the bid process up to competitive tendering. If the Manx government officials can persuade the Treasury that there is a business case for not having a full tender, then they can avoid it and just buy from their chosen supplier. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/29/egov_isle_man/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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