Declan Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 But you don't have the intelligence to realise that one can believe in God without believing in religion. I've never understood that. All these hippie cop out types "I believe in God or the creator or whatever but not organised religion". That's totally irrational. On the one hand believing in God is bizarre. There can't possibly be one. On the other hand the church provides a unique role in the lives of it's members. They welcome new family members there, celebrate two people joining their lives there and waive goodbye to the departed there. It's members get to together weekly, have a good sing song, hear a (usually harmless) feel good message and catch up with old friends. It provides a ceremonial framework to mundane and exceptional life experiences. There's something quite attractive about that and the central tenet it preaches "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a pretty good goal to set yourself. If only they'd knock all that God stuff and the moralising on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Well said, except I would add 'politicising' to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 If only they'd knock all that God stuff and the moralising on the head. Well said.. Bhuddism has it spot on in this regard, being more a philosophy than the worship of an entitity, and it does so in a non confrontational way. I wonder if there's a corrilation between the decline of religions in this country vs the rise of clubs, societies, politics, environmentalists even conspiracy theorists as people find other social structures to form some order in their lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 But you don't have the intelligence to realise that one can believe in God without believing in religion. I've never understood that. All these hippie cop out types "I believe in God or the creator or whatever but not organised religion". That's totally irrational. On the one hand believing in God is bizarre. There can't possibly be one. On the other hand the church provides a unique role in the lives of it's members. They welcome new family members there, celebrate two people joining their lives there and waive goodbye to the departed there. It's members get to together weekly, have a good sing song, hear a (usually harmless) feel good message and catch up with old friends. It provides a ceremonial framework to mundane and exceptional life experiences. There's something quite attractive about that and the central tenet it preaches "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is a pretty good goal to set yourself. If only they'd knock all that God stuff and the moralising on the head. This a quote from my last sermon which supports your view on routine. "Ritual for instance is very important in our lives - just the way we go through our day defines, reforms and shapes our lives. All of us have rituals we go through each day - getting up in the morning, showering, having a cup of tea, reading our newspaper, going for a walk, looking after the pets, the family or whatever. All this settles our souls. Rituals move us through life giving a well-defined pattern to our day. The ritual of coming to church to worship. It enriches our soul, and provides the soil necessary for our faith to flourish and grow." I know many of you will not accept there is a God or gods, but I hope you can go along with my comment about the necessity for a simple structure to your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I know many of you will not accept there is a God or gods, but I hope you can go along with my comment about the necessity for a simple structure to your day. It's clearly important for you, but I don't see how it's necessary for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 But you don't have the intelligence to realise that one can believe in God without believing in religion. I've never understood that. All these hippie cop out types "I believe in God or the creator or whatever but not organised religion". That's totally irrational. On the one hand believing in God is bizarre. There can't possibly be one. Except, there is every possibility of one. I view atheists the same as believers, arrogant to assume they know. Nobody knows. Nobody ever has, nobody ever will. Which is why spending too much time thinking about it or discussing it is pointless. Edit - that's not quite true. I don't view them the same - I err on the side of atheism 99% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Except, there is every possibility of one. I view atheists the same as believers, arrogant to assume they know. Nobody knows. Nobody ever has, nobody ever will. Which is why spending too much time thinking about it or discussing it is pointless. Edit - that's not quite true. I don't view them the same - I err on the side of atheism 99% of the time. With that view, you'd never believe anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Not without some sort of evidence, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Except, there is every possibility of one. I view atheists the same as believers, arrogant to assume they know. Nobody knows. Nobody ever has, nobody ever will. Which is why spending too much time thinking about it or discussing it is pointless. Edit - that's not quite true. I don't view them the same - I err on the side of atheism 99% of the time. That is a far more 'reasoned' view than most on this thread. Personally, I've filed religious beliefs away in the same cabinet as the other myths that I was presented with during childhood, such as Father Christmas, fairy tales etc. But that is my choice, my decision after a personal examination of the available evidence. It does not make me superior to believers and it does not prove that I have any greater intellectual capacity. We all make our own journeys and we all find our own destinations. If someone has a simple faith in something, it is not for me to condemn them for it. If they choose to believe that a life after death awaits them and that they have to obey certain rules to make it a good one, it serves little purpose for me to tell them that they're wrong. My view is that mankind invented god/gods as a method of social control - a way of ensuring that the masses obeyed the rules that were necessary for a society to survive - and that science and philosophy have undermined those ideas to such an extent that they are now virtually irrelevant. Unfortunately, the air of contempt with which believers are dismissed is now beginning to reflect the church's treatment of heretics a few hundred years ago. I don't care what anyone believes - I am secure in my personal non-belief - and as long as they're not proselytizing on my doorstep or in the streets (that's the one we really don't like, DjDan!) I'm happy to let them believe whatever they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integer Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 That is a far more 'reasoned' view than most on this thread.Personally, I've filed religious beliefs away in the same cabinet as the other myths that I was presented with during childhood, such as Father Christmas, fairy tales etc. But that is my choice, my decision after a personal examination of the available evidence. It does not make me superior to believers and it does not prove that I have any greater intellectual capacity. We all make our own journeys and we all find our own destinations. If someone has a simple faith in something, it is not for me to condemn them for it. If they choose to believe that a life after death awaits them and that they have to obey certain rules to make it a good one, it serves little purpose for me to tell them that they're wrong. My view is that mankind invented god/gods as a method of social control - a way of ensuring that the masses obeyed the rules that were necessary for a society to survive - and that science and philosophy have undermined those ideas to such an extent that they are now virtually irrelevant. Unfortunately, the air of contempt with which believers are dismissed is now beginning to reflect the church's treatment of heretics a few hundred years ago. I don't care what anyone believes - I am secure in my personal non-belief - and as long as they're not proselytizing on my doorstep or in the streets (that's the one we really don't like, DjDan!) I'm happy to let them believe whatever they wish. Hurrah, common sense rears its ugly head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ai_Droid Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Personally, I've filed religious beliefs away in the same cabinet as the other myths that I was presented with during childhood, such as Father Christmas, fairy tales etc. But that is my choice, my decision after a personal examination of the available evidence. It does not make me superior to believers and it does not prove that I have any greater intellectual capacity. We all make our own journeys and we all find our own destinations.If someone has a simple faith in something, it is not for me to condemn them for it. If they choose to believe that a life after death awaits them and that they have to obey certain rules to make it a good one, it serves little purpose for me to tell them that they're wrong. That's an attitude I whole heartedly respect. I don't care what anyone believes - I am secure in my personal non-belief - and as long as they're not proselytizing on my doorstep or in the streets (that's the one we really don't like, DjDan!) I'm happy to let them believe whatever they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 But you don't have the intelligence to realise that one can believe in God without believing in religion. I've never understood that. All these hippie cop out types "I believe in God or the creator or whatever but not organised religion". That's totally irrational. On the one hand believing in God is bizarre. There can't possibly be one. Except, there is every possibility of one. I view atheists the same as believers, arrogant to assume they know. Nobody knows. Nobody ever has, nobody ever will. Which is why spending too much time thinking about it or discussing it is pointless. Edit - that's not quite true. I don't view them the same - I err on the side of atheism 99% of the time. Yeah you're right. I shouldn't have said there "can't possibly be one" since there is a slim chance that there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I know many of you will not accept there is a God or gods, but I hope you can go along with my comment about the necessity for a simple structure to your day. It's clearly important for you, but I don't see how it's necessary for everyone? I believe all of us must make our own free decisions through life. The study of theology, philosophy and other learning is important to me. But this is my choice. It is certainly unnecessary for many and not something which makes you any better than anyone else. If you are an atheist, agnostic, or whatever, it is your choice. You may change your mind - so be it. It's your decision, your free will, your life. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 At the end of the day (ie. when we are dead), let's look at the two scenario's: NO GOD Non believer -----> nothing Believer -----> nothing THERE IS A GOD Non believer -----> Believer -----> Glory, glory hallelujah!!! Pick and choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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