The Steam Racket

[Roger Smelly]

Well peter karran will ask questions regarding the steam packet at tynwald, regarding the service they give etc.

 

What i would like to see is at least one more ferry operator on the isle of man so we have a choice.

 

Currently the steam packet is owned by a australian bank, i think personally a proper ferry operator is better than a bunch of bankers who know nothing about ferries and also are on the other side of the world.

 

Time for some change, Stena Line or P&O would be a better choice for the island.

[BigDave]

I don't think there's even a glimmer of a chance of another operator even wanting to come here. There's just not enough business.

 

I don't think the owners of the company make much difference to the service. They just collect the money, they don't actually run it. The directors and management run the operations, albeit badly at times.

 

Ideally the Steam Packet would be government owned so it could run on a non-profit basis, helping to reduce fares and improve service.

[alpha-acid]

Well peter karran will ask questions regarding the steam packet at tynwald, regarding the service they give etc.

 

What i would like to see is at least one more ferry operator on the isle of man so we have a choice.

 

Currently the steam packet is owned by a australian bank, i think personally a proper ferry operator is better than a bunch of bankers who know nothing about ferries and also are on the other side of the world.

 

Time for some change, Stena Line or P&O would be a better choice for the island.

 

There is not enougth traffic for 2 operators as has been proven historically with Manx Line Ro Ro sevice.

[manxman8180]

Here we go........

 

Yet another who must think there are a myriad of ferry operators waiting to jump in and save us Islanders, and let us travel all year round for £10 each. There's a lot more to setting up a ferry operation to the Island than you may think. It is certainly more difficult than a doing a similar thing with an aircraft, hence the explosion of little airlines in recent years (and subsequent demise of most of them)

 

And many years before the Company was owned by an Austalian Bank, it was owned by thousands of individual shareholders, who equally knew fuck all about running a ferry company. (And it was roundly criticised then as well) The senior management team has remained relatively unchanged since SeaCo took over many years ago as well, so have things really changed?

 

Yes, they had a bit of a blip over TT, but they still carried over 47 something thousand people here and back within the space of two weeks (with the majority going in and out within 2 - 3 days each way). So let's say that's about 60% of the population here. That would mean an equivalent in the UK of asking Brittany Ferries to ship 36 million people from Poole to Cherbourg within a week or so.

 

There mistake in my mind, was not making the call earlier, and giving people several months notice, instead of weeks / days (or in some cases none at all).

 

The Government imposes certain restrictions / guarantees on the Company already through the User Agreement, and I'd be willing to bet they are miles within those pledges. Perhaps the Goverment should look at tightening it? Maybe the Packet will tell them to piss off? I can't remember how long the current agreement has got to run, but I think it's a good few years yet.

 

Quick Edit - The Agreement also limits fare increases to inflation less half a percent, so it's actually a reduction in real terms. How pissed off would you be if your annual pay increase was tied down like that as well?

[lisner]

Peter Karran isn't asking a question as such. He is moving that a 3 member committee be set up.

 

The motion will at least have a seconder, but whether or not Peter Karran's fellow MHKs, (that is to say YOUR MHKs) will back the motion is another matter.

 

From the Tynwald Order Paper tabled for 19th June 2007 (next Tuesday):

 

 

43. Isle of Man Steam Packet Company -

The Hon Member for Onchan (Mr Karran) to move -

That a committee of three Members be appointed with powers to take written

and oral evidence pursuant to sections 3 and 4 of the Tynwald Proceedings

Act 1876, as amended, to investigate whether it is now in the economic or

social interest of the Isle of Man to maintain the unique position of the Isle of

Man Steam Packet Company in relation to passenger and freight sea

transport, whether the agreements with that company continue to serve the

public interest, whether such agreements can or should be terminated, and

whether alternative sea transport services are desirable from the Port of

Douglas or elsewhere in the Island, and to report with recommendations by

the first sitting of the Court in 2008.

 

Source and link to Tynwald website is here

 

After this year's TT, it seems this could well be a very, very busy committee

 

You should consider how your elected (and of course in the Legislative Council - unelected) politicians, vote on this matter.

 

Having read the motion, do you think that a committee should or should not be formed?

[Tempus Fugit]

how many sailings would you think the spco need to put on to satisfy people ?

 

how about Heysham, departing at :

02.30

06.15

08.45

09.45

17.15

18.30

20.45

21.00

 

as well as services to :

Larne / Troon at 04.20

Liverpool 02.50, 12.00

 

(saturday 9th June)

 

Ships :

Ben my Chree

Superseacat2

Emeraude France

Stena Caledonia

P&O Express

Phocine (freight)

Hoburgen (freight)

 

really, I think they did a good job of getting everyone here and back, despite the odd re-scheduling, Heysham linkspan collapse, loss of their own 'cat' and having to sort out all the problems of one which has been sitting idle for months.

 

One family member who came for a few days was highly impressed at Liverpool with staff fluent in German, French, Italian and Scouse ! (and an instant amended booking by telephone at the last minute due to a family medical emergency) and the boat trip was an enjoyable part of the whole experience.

 

I hope the spco will actually publish the figures when it all settles down, I know there was something the other day but the rush hadn't even finished by then.

[John Wright]

I certainly do not think the replacement of one private monoploy with a government monopoly can resolve things, certainly not if its purpose is low, uneconomic fares. Whoever operates must make enough to make substantial profits to invest in new vessels.

 

There may now be enough traffic for two services if you include freight, but it would be borderline. In that case a user agreement is a sort of competition by regulation, requiring increased services, capacity, frequency and investmant over its life to allow for stability and profit, supposedley to the advantage of the population and the operating company and the Island as a whole.

 

In theory it has worked well, level and capacity of service is up, except at peak time such as TT demand is met. The seacats have been a disaster in winter.

 

Problem is that the user agreement keeps on being extended by stealth and without competitive tendering. It was extended before Montagu took over from Seacontainers and agin before McQuarrie took over from Montague.

 

You can see their point. Lets say that government nationalised IOMSPCo, should it let in competition, there would be a fuss if it did not. How would it regulate itself. Lets look at another altrernative. I am goiung to promote New IOMSPCo to purchase the assets and routes of the existing company, wqould i be able to raise capital without a user agreement?

 

EU regulations provide for competitive tendering, and so there should be, but for that the licence periods for a user agreement have to be long enough. Its just like train franchises in UK. The user agreement acts as a regulator to create an artificial market and drive down prices

 

So what does the present agreement do

 

The 2004 agreement provides

 

Lasts to 2020, with an option for further extension to 2026 plus an extra year (up to a maximum 3 years) for any year in which the TT might be cancelled.

 

In return for the near (but not completely) exclusive use of the linkspans the company has had to guarantee minimum frequencies of service, which have been adjusted upwards at each extension.

 

There are formulae both for payments for use of the facilities and also increases in passenger fares, although the arrival of “special offer” fares – which have become a requirement since 2002 – have rather confused that issue.

 

Services are required to be operate to a port in north west UK and also (at a lesser frequency) to either Liverpool, Holyhead or a port in between. ( So they cannot in reality abandon Liverpool sailings)

 

There is also a requirement specified for Irish services.

 

The ports used have to be nominated by the Company and accepted as being suitable by the Department of Transport. The required ports, until agreed otherwise, are Heysham, Liverpool, Belfast and Dublin.

 

It should be noted that the actual level of service provided is considerably in excess of those specified as a minimum in the User Agreement.

 

The Company has also had to commit to fleet and marketing investment. Under the 1995 agreement a fleet investment of £20 million (indexed to 1994) was required, satisfied by the building of the Ben-my-Chree and the re-introduction of fast craft. The extension to 2010 did not require further investment but was reported as giving the company “enough time in which to earn a return on any fleet renewal programme they may undertake”.

 

The 2004 extension (to 2020/2026) was required because the Steam Packet said it neededthe security which would be given by a new User Agreement to run from 2010, in order to progress the early replacement of the existing 74 metre SeaCat and the MV Lady of Mann. Although the Lady of Mann was sold in 2005 that investment has yet to be made – but the extended agreement requires a fleet investment of £26 million by 2015 (of which £18 million needs to be spent by 2012).

 

There has been no invitation to other companies to bid for the provision of Isle of Man services

 

There has been no stipulation of performance targets eg percentage of sailings operated and on time which need to be met and monitored. May be with penalties for being late or diverted and with compensation

 

There is no requirement for the company or the Department of Transport to establish customer views or requirements prior to any of the extensions to the Agreement..

[ade]

Well I want to say that the Steam Packet deserve a pat on the back for helping out at the last minute with the Island Games Squad. At a squad meeting last night it emerged that the steam packet are not only carrying part of the squad back from Liverpool FOC, but are also laying on coaches to get that same squad back to Liverpool from Manchester airport - our new destination from Rhodes.

[Deejay Denzel]

bring back Manx-Line! or somebody with a similar aim!

[manxman8180]

And that aim was?

[John Wright]

Cheaper freight and passenger fares with a modern full ro ro service two times per day to and from heysham using a link span. Just like the Steam Packet has done ever sine ManxLine took it over in a reverse take over.

 

And as for PR disasters does any one remember the first year of Manx Line. It did not start on time, the link span was delayed, they had to cranes motorbikes on and off in douglas then come the first winter storm the linkspan broke

 

However £32 for car and driver for a weekend return out Friday evening back Sunday Midnight when it did get started was cheap. But not as cheap, after inflation, as the IOMSPCo's current cheapest fares to and frfom Heysham or Liverpool off peak. The inflation multiplier was 10.6 so an equivalent fare wuld be £340. It runs at £109 in winter spring and £119 in autumn winter, a two thirds saving

[manxman8180]

Exactly the response I was waiting for.

 

Hence disproving many of the adverse comments about the level of service and, in reality, the price.

[ourtess]

The Packet offer a good service, just right for the amount of trade. Perhaps if islanders travelled a bit more they could offer more services?

 

£15 for me and my bike - bargain.

[Bill Posters]

They are an easy target. The Manx crab syndrome means that if they do well and profit, they get slagged off. If they get it wrong, they seem to equally get slagged off. I don't think that some of their 'back room' staff and procedures are as good as they used to be, but the staff on the front line do an excellent job, often under difficult circumstances.

 

I would love to see the return of a Manx Line type competitor. (Remember how the IOMSPCo prices dropped?)

 

Sadly, I don't think there is enough of a market to sustain two operators.

[John Wright]

I am not out to defend them. How they behaved over TT was shameful. They need to be set performance targets and also to provide compensation for cancellation, late or disruption. They neee to learn good PR. Most of all they need to learn how to admit that they are wrong and how to apologise gracefully

 

What is really wrong is a fear of honesty

 

If their new PR had come out and said

 

the boat we had chartered couldn't get a Board of Trade certificate. To accomodate everyone we are moving some fast carft sailings to Heysham because we can do 5 round trips per day from Heysham rather than 3 from Liverpool.

 

Well I for one would have respected honesty, faced with difficult situation and doing best etc.

 

Instead we had blame the forums for scare mongering.

 

I fly budget airlines frequently, experienced delays with both Ryanair and easyJet, won't travel Ryanair any more, no explanations, cancelations just because plane not full enough, abandoned at airports miles from anywhere Easy jet at least do advise, after two hours give a voucher and after 4 hours give you choice refund for full cost of air fare and don't travel,or refund for that sector and travel for free as soon as.

 

Who would you choose.

 

The last time I got delayed in snow at Luton Stelios actually came to the gate and gave out the refund vouchers