Manxman27 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Well why don't the government instead of paying a fortune on advertising give the money to the steam racket and subsidise the summer fares. I've thought the same thing about the tourism grants, if perhaps Govt. subsidised the travel costs people would come and the guest houses etc. would make enough money to survive without the need for grants. If it was cheaper to get here, and there was a tourisim trade again I'm sure businesses geared towards tourists would pop up, IOM Ghost walks for example, it would be good for guided walks, fishing and diving charters. How about a travel guide who could draw up an itinerary for peoples trips, drive them around in a mini bus take them to laxey wheel etc. and know enough about it to be able to quickly explain what the story is rather than people having to read all the plaques. Then have an agreement with a couple of good restaurants & pubs where these regular tourists get a decent discount for eating and drinking. A similar agreement with a small hotel or guest house might work too. I think what I'm getting at is when I've had friends come over, they drove the whole Island and didn't know where the good places to eat were, or where to go or what to do. If we could guide visitors to all the good stuff, they will have a good time, rather than discovering all the rubbish things and leaving dissapointed, never to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Well why don't the government instead of paying a fortune on advertising give the money to the steam racket and subsidise the summer fares. I've thought the same thing about the tourism grants, if perhaps Govt. subsidised the travel costs people would come and the guest houses etc. would make enough money to survive without the need for grants. If it was cheaper to get here, and there was a tourisim trade again I'm sure businesses geared towards tourists would pop up, IOM Ghost walks for example, it would be good for guided walks, fishing and diving charters. How about a travel guide who could draw up an itinerary for peoples trips, drive them around in a mini bus take them to laxey wheel etc. and know enough about it to be able to quickly explain what the story is rather than people having to read all the plaques. Then have an agreement with a couple of good restaurants & pubs where these regular tourists get a decent discount for eating and drinking. A similar agreement with a small hotel or guest house might work too. I think what I'm getting at is when I've had friends come over, they drove the whole Island and didn't know where the good places to eat were, or where to go or what to do. If we could guide visitors to all the good stuff, they will have a good time, rather than discovering all the rubbish things and leaving dissapointed, never to return. I think that is a very sensible suggestion. 'Freedom to Flourish' is all very well, but if we get people here we want them to come back - and not feel that they've been fleeced and missed all the good bits - never to return. If one person has a bad experience he/she soon tells another and so on. Most TT visitors I have spoken to spent well over a £1000 getting here and staying here for just a week. There were many others who spent far more. They probably could have gone to Daytona for a week for that - not just somewhere 60 miles from home in the British Isles. The thing people forget is that if we fleece people they won't come back...and then no one wins in the end. Whilst many people go on about prices and market forces, it is the perception of being ripped off that will last some of these visitors a lifetime. Whatever the OFT says, prices went up for TT with few exceptions and many people acted like pirranhas when the visitors arrived. Food, Taxis, Beer, Petrolk etc. Many visitors and locals recognised that. Most visitors wouldn't know who to complain to anyway (e.g. who would you complain too if you were in the US?) - and what would be the point of complaining if everyone had put their prices up across the board anyway? Locals have been complianing about higher prices and sod all has been done e.g. pump prices. People tend to keep their mouths shut and vote with their feet in such circumstances. The only real test will be next year and the year after - when we see how many do return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 How about a 'cashback' scheme where visitors can call at the information centre and collect an information pack and vouchers to use at hotels/venues/restaurants etc. whilst here, could be a good way to publicise your establishment with advertising, targeted directly at your market, and gives the 'subsidy' directly to the visitor to use where they want, not the ferry company or airline, so not giving particular advantage or favouritism anywhere. ps, just noticed the steamie's cunning plan to cut fuel consumption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Whatever the OFT says, prices went up for TT with few exceptions and many people acted like pirranhas when the visitors arrived. Food, Taxis, Beer, Petrolk etc. Many visitors and locals recognised that. Please try to get some of your facts right. Taxi fares - which are regulated by a government appointed body - were increased by exactly 1.7% (well below annual inflation!) at the beginning of April - with no increase whatsoever in the after midnight fares for the second successive year. Some petrol stations were charging £1.0299 before TT - and reduced them to £1.0099 during TT. Perpetuating the myth that everyone rips off our visitors does nothing for perceptions of our island and, in some cases, comes pretty close to being slanderous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Didn't stop some of them switching their meters off for bookings from the Peel Bay Festival and charging in excess of £50 from Peel to Douglas. It might be legal because technically it's a private hire since it's been booked, but they don't do it any other time so why do it for a TT event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If they are acting as Private Hire (that is to say having been pre-booked or phoned for immediate response) they are required to give a price at the time of booking which can then be either accepted or rejected by the customer. If they are flagged down on the street or at a rank they are required to use the meter for the fare - or to offer a fare that is not in exceess of the metered fare. Anything else is illegal and should be reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Whatever the OFT says, prices went up for TT with few exceptions and many people acted like pirranhas when the visitors arrived. Food, Taxis, Beer, Petrolk etc. Many visitors and locals recognised that. Please try to get some of your facts right. Taxi fares - which are regulated by a government appointed body - were increased by exactly 1.7% (well below annual inflation!) at the beginning of April - with no increase whatsoever in the after midnight fares for the second successive year. Some petrol stations were charging £1.0299 before TT - and reduced them to £1.0099 during TT. Perpetuating the myth that everyone rips off our visitors does nothing for perceptions of our island and, in some cases, comes pretty close to being slanderous! I was talking to a guy at the weekend who was charged £16 for a trip to his campsite - the taxi driver thought he was in for an argument - but the guy was moaning that he had been charged £32 for the same trip at the same time the previous evening (well before midnight - as that was the first question I asked). I personally got 'gazumped' by a group of campers during TT week when taxi's were in short supply and the driver opted for the longer trip - fair enough you might say at busy times with crowds of people about. I don't make things up - these are first hand accounts from people I have spoken with over TT - not just my perception. As for petrol - remember this thread about petrol prices going up earlier in May prior to TT. I know that petrol goes up for a variety of reasons (we are expecting a rise over the next few weeks becuase of the instability in a variety of areas). Nevertheless, people are used to paying 5p to 10p less a litre in many parts of the UK - so again it is a perception of being ripped off I am talking about - in context with people coming back next year. I admire you defending your trade, and I know a good few taxi drivers on the island myself and most of them are decent chaps and generally I have no complaints. I got a couple of good deals on a prior-agreed price for a multi-drop on a couple of occasions myself. I know they have meters - but they are not always turned on are they? People have many different and varied experiences over TT. There's nothing slanderous when it's the truth and you're relating your own first hand experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I accept that there are a few villains in my trade (in fact the system enacted since the government took it over makes it a great deal easier for such people to operate), but I was amazed at this... I personally got 'gazumped' by a group of campers during TT week when taxi's were in short supply and the driver opted for the longer trip - fair enough you might say at busy times with crowds of people about. When it's busy, shorter trips are very definitely the most profitable (remember that there's the starting fee every time someone gets in!) so the driver must have had some other reason for knocking you back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I accept that there are a few villains in my trade (in fact the system enacted since the government took it over makes it a great deal easier for such people to operate), but I was amazed at this... I personally got 'gazumped' by a group of campers during TT week when taxi's were in short supply and the driver opted for the longer trip - fair enough you might say at busy times with crowds of people about. When it's busy, shorter trips are very definitely the most profitable (remember that there's the starting fee every time someone gets in!) so the driver must have had some other reason for knocking you back! Come to think of it - I did mention your name Nice try. I think Douglas to Kirk Michael with 4 people is far better than Douglas to Douglas with 2 Though maybe he lives near there or something and was going off shift - who knows? I was peshectly sober-ish anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Nice try. I think Douglas to Kirk Michael with 4 people is far better than Douglas to Douglas with 2 It is on a very quiet night! However, in the time that it takes to get to Kirk Michael and back at a busy time, the driver could do anything up to 10 or 12 'local' jobs. Simple maths says take the local job - in fact one of the complaints we hear most often is of cabbies refusing to take people out of town when its busy! I was peshectly sober-ish anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 It seems the saga doesn't end, and the SP is still saying "wasn't us".. Brown refuses to answer Steam Packet questions CHIEF Minister Tony Brown has refused to answer questions about the Steam Packet in advance of a possible debate in Tynwald. Peter Karran wants a select committee to investigate the user agreement and the Steam Packet. We posed these questions to Chief Minister Tony Brown last week but he refused to answer, saying: 'Because Mr Karran's got a motion down for debate it would be inappropriate to add anything more to what has already been said.' These were the questions we wanted Mr Brown to answer: 1) Have you been satisfied with the Steam Packet's performance over the TT period? 2) Do you accept that the number and nature of the complaints posted by passengers about the Steam Packet's TT service which have appeared on news websites and forums (iomtoday alone has received more than 100 submissions from readers to our stories, only a handful of which have been supportive of the company. This is the most submissions we have ever received on any subject) is not good for the Island's image? 3) Are you concerned that although many of those complaints refer specifically to the problems over TT, many contain historic complaints about the service the company offers to the Island and its visitors? 4) If government believes the Steam Packet has done the best it can in the circumstances, would it not be helpful in the interests of openness to allow an investigation to go ahead to provide detailed answers to the many questions the public has? 5) What problems would you foresee arising if other operators were allowed to operate alongside the Steam Packet? 6) If the Steam Packet knew it was unlikely it would be able to charter another/other vessel/s just for two weeks because of the way the industry works and the company was unable to get definitive answers from charter companies, as has been said - a ) does this mean no ferry company would have been able to provide a better service than that which was seen over Centenary TT fortnight? b ) why were bookings taken (in some cases two years in advance) for timetabled sailings? Steam Packet boss speaks out Article by Hamish Ross, managing director, Isle of Man Steam Packet Company THE user agreement was introduced in 1995 and has provided the platform for a real improvement in shipping services over the past decade. Prior to its introduction the Steam Packet Company usually offered one passenger sailing per day to Heysham and relatively infrequent sailings to Liverpool with only standard fares. Currently the company offers four passenger sailings per day to England with the vast majority of customers benefiting from special offer fares and faster crossing times. UK Island ferry services (eg Orkney/Shetland) tend to be very heavily subsidised by the UK taxpayer and indeed many other UK ferry operators have contracted over the past decade in the face of airline competition. In contrast Isle of Man ferry services are unsubsidised but heavily regulated by the agreement to provide minimum service guarantees. Since 1995 the Steam Packet Company has provided twice the frequency, twice the capacity, substantially lowered fares, invested £60m in new tonnage, and encouraged a dramatic increase in passenger carryings. The company is obliged by the agreement to provide unprofitable winter and other extra services and a frequency and capacity of service that exceeds demand throughout the year. It is obliged to reduce average standard passenger and freight prices in real terms every year, obliged to offer a specified level of freight and passenger capacity and it is obliged to offer no less than 50 per cent of sales at special fares. The company is 100 per cent compliant with each of its many obligations and indeed exceeds these in every respect, even though the user agreement conditions are now even more stringent than those introduced 12 years ago. The company's commitment to improving services continues. This year for the first time it is utilising a second fastcraft dedicated to Isle of Man services to improve both the Liverpool and Irish services. Funds are available for further fastcraft investment in due course. The Centenary TT has attracted negative attention regarding late transfers but the company actually provided the capacity required to carry as many vehicles as the whole of the first 20 weeks of 2007, and all the extra freight, an extraordinary achievement. The company scheduled an additional 242 sailings, used six extra vessels, employed on additional 270 staff and worked 24/7 to successfully carry 94,000 passengers and 46,000 vehicles without a single passenger service cancellation. All customers were advised schedules could be altered but only 1 per cent of customers were adversely affected by the transfers which are regrettable but a necessity as some chartered vessels would not commit in advance. If the company had only accepted bookings with guaranteed schedules the Isle of Man would have lost 10,000 visitors and £5m visitor spend, and lost the opportunity to showcase our beautiful Island. The Steam Packet Company is locally managed and one of the Island's largest Manx employers. The user agreement has provided stability, frequency, capacity, investment, and lower fares, whereas some of the Island's air services have been characterised by route closures and instability. The user agreement has proved a resounding success for the Isle of Man and to return to service provision offered prior to 1995 would be an extremely backward step. The company would be pleased as always to invite Mr Karran or any Tynwald members to meet with us to discuss any issues or concerns. So, still "we're great, nothing's been our fault" line then - hm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 substantially lowered fares... This is my biggest gripe with the Steam Packet, although I have another ongoing issue with them that I won't comment on at this stage for legal reasons. I've only been resident here on the island for just over 3 years, and a lot of what Mr. Ross is referring to seems to apply to the changes made since 1995, so I might be a mile out here. The recent changes with the Steam Packet are costing me money. When I first moved here, for around the first 18 months or so, I traveled back to the UK a lot and my average ferry ticket cost me £130 for me + car, and every 6th crossing was free. For the last 12 months my average ticket has cost me £190 and there's no such thing as a free ride anymore. Today I went to book a ticket for the end of July, £170. So if you can explain why in real terms I'm seeing a considerable rise in prices, whilst you're repeatedly saying prices are coming down then I'm very willing to listen. When you say obliged to offer no less than 50 per cent of sales at special fares is this just corporate white wash for the fact that these 50% of sales at special fares are when nobody wants to travel? Can you truthfully stand there and say that 50% of your actual passenger sales where at a special discounted rate? As yet I've yet to make a single booking that's offered at a special rate. Personally I'm lucky to be working in an increasingly expanding industry, as such I can choose where I want to work. If asked I'd have to say my number 1 reason for wanting to leave this beautiful island would be the difficulty and cost of traveling over to the UK, the Steam Packet Company takes the lions share of that responsibility in my opinion. It disproportionately tips the scales into the negative column. There's many excellent reason to want to stay here, but at present they are outweighed by the negative aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 My average weekly shop costs more than it did three years ago. A new car costs more than it did three years ago. Houses costs more than they did three years ago. And they all cost considerably more than they did in 1995. Prices go up. Live with it. P.S. Your point about three years is valid, as it isn't a great deal of time over which to analyse the trends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalkeeper Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Well peter karran will ask questions regarding the steam packet at tynwald, regarding the service they give etc. What i would like to see is at least one more ferry operator on the isle of man so we have a choice. Currently the steam packet is owned by a australian bank, i think personally a proper ferry operator is better than a bunch of bankers who know nothing about ferries and also are on the other side of the world. Time for some change, Stena Line or P&O would be a better choice for the island. The big companys will not touch the isle of man and if they do they would want bigger profits,thereis not enough winter business(they say )to sustain service without freight and cars ,hence the high costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 My average weekly shop costs more than it did three years ago. A new car costs more than it did three years ago. Houses costs more than they did three years ago. And they all cost considerably more than they did in 1995. Prices go up. Live with it. P.S. Your point about three years is valid, as it isn't a great deal of time over which to analyse the trends I'm just wondering if there is any aspect of the Racket that you wont defend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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