Newsbot Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 About £2m in extra funding is needed to reduce waiting lists in some parts of the Isle of Man health service. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6753637.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
from abroad Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 About £2m in extra funding is needed to reduce waiting lists in some parts of the Isle of Man health service. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6753637.stm TO REDUCE YOUR WAITING LIST MAYBE REVIEW THIS SITUATION -- Does the man on the street realise that for eg- The IOM Doctors and hospitals treat any person regardless of nationality/residence either on holiday or as new resident in the same way as they would treat a Manx Man or long time resident at the same cost but if you -A Manx man or ex resident of IOM go to live in eg France you either will have to take out a private insurance for health (holiday) or if you wish to reside permanently in eg France as a Manx man - there is no reciprical agreement therefore you will need a visa to live & contribute 8% of your income to join the health service (it is illegal not to contribute and only have a private medical)- or if you are UK born but arriving from IOM to become a permanent resident in France you will have no entitlement to the health service because you are not able to produce any E (European ) forms from the IOM- you have to have all your documents from IOM sent to Newcastle Health Dept. So what I am trying to say - long winded sorry! Your government is treating all and sundry for free making the waiting list even longer- . I am now a permanent residence in France and have the European E111 (France pays for my treatment) for visiting any EU Country when I am on holiday - but as the IOM does not recognise or produce any E forms/cards if I was ill you would treat me for free and claim nothing back from France - It was explained to me that because The IOM is not contributing to a "pot" as regards recipricol health (only with the UK) this is the penalty it has to carry- very sad . Interested to hear other opinions . My information is based on hands on experience of leaving the IOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Over 10% of that requirement would have been found if the St Christopher's child care contract had been properly set up and the surplus retained on the island. Listening to Mr Teare on MR recently, he clearly does not think it is anomolous that a Manx registered charity should ship its surplus created under funding from IOM Government, off island. He ended the interview by saying 'Well, look at it another way, perhaps it is repayment of a loan given by the UK affiliate to enable set up on the Island.' If that is the case, then it is, hopefully, going to be a short to medium term situation when the loan is repaid and the surplus is no longer moved off island. That response did make me wonder whether he was clear on the basis on which the surplus has been transfered to the UK body and whether the difference in administration of a contract with a Manx registered charity rather than a commerical concern is understood by those dealing with it. You expect a commercial organisation to produce profits and to pay these to its owners, but when you contract with a charity (and one registered here) you have to approach the matter from a different angle, particularly when public money is involved. I have posted on this before, and I am surprised that no one has taken much noticeable interest in this. I may just pop in to the General Registry and have a look at St Christopher's accounts, doubt they will have filed any covering the new contract, but it would be interesting to see how they have structured their operation on the island. Add link http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php...ristopher's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotlima Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Gladys, if you do pop into the General Registry to see the accounts, could you possibly PM me your findings please? I would be most interested to find out. I shall save my [/rant] mode as I think I covered it in the link you provided but I would appreciate an overview of their operations, if the information is in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Why would people come to IOM for free treatment when they could have it in the UK for the same price without the Packet's fares? I think the only active health tourism is by those that need a bit of fresh air and scenery. The IOM's lack of death duties more than make up for a bit of free emergency care in Europe. The inheritance laws in France are a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Gladys, if you do pop into the General Registry to see the accounts, could you possibly PM me your findings please? I would be most interested to find out. I shall save my [/rant] mode as I think I covered it in the link you provided but I would appreciate an overview of their operations, if the information is in the public domain. All registered charities have to file accounts which are available to the public. They also have a website, but that is really PR. The meat will be in the accounts. However, as I said I doubt the accounts filed so far will reflect the new contract, but they will give an idea of how they operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 As I am on a roll, here is the definition of a Manx Charity. http://www.gov.im/registries/courts/charities/what.xml See, particularly the IOM connection requirement and the second head re raising funds to help off island causes. Does that really include surpluses from IOM Government funded contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotlima Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I am with you now Gladys, I was a little ignorant to how these things work, I think it was too many years spent 'too close to home'. I seriously believe that this subcontracting business really needs an enquiry, as it really does not sit comfortably with the ethos of, how can I say it, LOCAL care provisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I don't think it needs an enquiry, FTL, not in the Peter Karran sense anyway. But I think we need to be assured that, after the shambolic state of child care provision here over the last few years, those that are monitoring and administering the new arrangements have a complete handle on all aspects, including what is to be done with contract surpluses, and that any surplus is ploughed back into the service to make sure it continues to deliver high quality care. It is more deserving than a shrug of the shoulders, perhaps the money is going back to the UK for this or that reason. We should know on what basis the money is being transfered and whether this will benefit our youngsters; if not, why not? This money coud also be used to undertake new initiatives to make improvements so that at the end of their time in the care system, we have responsible, productive and included people. Truly, I have no axe to grind with St Kitts. I am sure they deliver a highly professional service (hard to question that given their credentials) and have the welfare of the children in their care uppermost. But having appointed a Manx charity to undertake this contract, our money, that is yours and mine, should be retained here for the benefit of our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Some Daily Mail readers do love a good rant and certainly don't allow the facts to come between them and anything which allows them to have a pop at the EU and also any foreigners. Fact visitors to and temporary residents of the IOM (except from UK) only get free emergency care either under reciprocal agreements or under unilateral provision. Fee emergency care means exactly that. Totally different type of medicine, with totally different doctors to elective surgery, ie pre planned surgery. Emergencies do not increase the waiting list in the IOM for elective surgery, at all. Yes if you are permanently resident, born, immigrated whatever you get it free at point of delivery. Of course it isn't free. It is paid for via taxes and NI. So if you move from Poland to the IOM, get a job, start paying social taxes, you are just as entitled to free medical care as anyone born here. So is your spouse and your dependants. You wouldn't try to claim that BUPA should not take on new members as that stops the old ones being top of the queue, would you? So you moved to France. It wouldn't make any difference whether your move was from UK or IOM, with one exception. If from England you might be able to blagg your way with an EHIC (form 111 no longer exists)on a temporary basis until you got your job and started paying in to the French Social system. Once that happens you cannot use the EHIC in the country you live and work and contribute in. Yes you can get a French EHIC for when you travel in the EU, just as you could when living and working in England. The IOM resident can't because we didn't join the club, either properly in 1973 or when EHIC came along. After all with an EHIC it is the issuing country which picks up the tab. In other words you fall ill abroad in the EU, get whatever treatment a local would be entitled to, pay what the would have to pay and then the health provider sends a bill to your home country. So IOM, a medical tourism destination, NO. Stop scaremongering. Because of the cases whereby UK citizens have gone to EU countries for elective treatment and paid and then sued UK to reimburse them the whole matter is being re examined. Pester your MHK to opt IOM in to EHIC, so our social taxes apply abroad within the E. BUT do remember even if that happens still take out insurance. You will still have to pay part of the cost, such as drugs or ambulance, and non of the state schemes pay for repatriation by air ambulance. Oh and the bit about the Visa. UK passport holders do not require a visa to go to France or to live there. IOM passports are UK passports. The only people in the IOM who have problem are those with all 6 parents and grandparents Manx born. They do not qualify automatically for the right of residence or to work. I understand it is less than 2,000 people out of 80,000. What is more 5 years residence in UK solves the problem. About £2m in extra funding is needed to reduce waiting lists in some parts of the Isle of Man health service. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6753637.stm TO REDUCE YOUR WAITING LIST MAYBE REVIEW THIS SITUATION -- Does the man on the street realise that for eg- The IOM Doctors and hospitals treat any person regardless of nationality/residence either on holiday or as new resident in the same way as they would treat a Manx Man or long time resident at the same cost but if you -A Manx man or ex resident of IOM go to live in eg France you either will have to take out a private insurance for health (holiday) or if you wish to reside permanently in eg France as a Manx man - there is no reciprical agreement therefore you will need a visa to live & contribute 8% of your income to join the health service (it is illegal not to contribute and only have a private medical)- or if you are UK born but arriving from IOM to become a permanent resident in France you will have no entitlement to the health service because you are not able to produce any E (European ) forms from the IOM- you have to have all your documents from IOM sent to Newcastle Health Dept. So what I am trying to say - long winded sorry! Your government is treating all and sundry for free making the waiting list even longer- . I am now a permanent residence in France and have the European E111 (France pays for my treatment) for visiting any EU Country when I am on holiday - but as the IOM does not recognise or produce any E forms/cards if I was ill you would treat me for free and claim nothing back from France - It was explained to me that because The IOM is not contributing to a "pot" as regards recipricol health (only with the UK) this is the penalty it has to carry- very sad . Interested to hear other opinions . My information is based on hands on experience of leaving the IOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessa Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Fact visitors to and temporary residents of the IOM (except from UK) only get free emergency care either under reciprocal agreements or under unilateral provision. Fee emergency care means exactly that. Totally different type of medicine, with totally different doctors to elective surgery, ie pre planned surgery. Emergencies do not increase the waiting list in the IOM for elective surgery, at all. Yes if you are permanently resident, born, immigrated whatever you get it free at point of delivery. Of course it isn't free. It is paid for via taxes and NI. So if you move from Poland to the IOM, get a job, start paying social taxes, you are just as entitled to free medical care as anyone born here. So is your spouse and your dependants. You wouldn't try to claim that BUPA should not take on new members as that stops the old ones being top of the queue, would you? Sadly John, I would likely agree with some of the comments made by fromabroad concerning the bureaucratic difficulties perhaps? However I agree Emergency help should be available here etc The difficulties can start if one is a British or Manx National who may have gone downunder to holiday/ work or live overseas; and may even obtained dual citizenship etc IMHO the Social Security agreements or various other international instruments & agreements that should exist to protect one's basic needs or occupational entitlements plus any benefits in either country that can all be vital in times of crisis or health needs..well its no longer any reassurance imho ie there can be NO protection nor shield against adverse circumstances .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 The only people in the IOM who have problem are those with all 6 parents and grandparents Manx born. They do not qualify automatically for the right of residence or to work. I understand it is less than 2,000 people out of 80,000. What is more 5 years residence in UK solves the problem. And why would they want to leave Peel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Would I be right in assuming that "From Abroad" is the same person who has been spouting on about "health tourism" and "immigrants getting all our free health care before us" in the local newspapers for the last few weeks? I can't remember the persons name (and wouldn't post it anyway if I did) but the way the post and letters are written suggests it's the same troll. Spouting, again as John puts it, Daily Mail type scaremoungering. As John states, if you go and live somehwere with a developed social health care system then you are entitled to take advantage of that (i.e use it normally) once you've started paying into that system. That's what the "immigrants" who come here to work do. Then we have "Ourtess" getting the wrong end of the stick again (I enjoyed the discussion regarding the IOM's electric power requirements!). Totally missed the point here haven't you? And you know what really gets me about these two posters commenting on the IOM Health Service? Neihter of them actually live here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Then we have "Ourtess" getting the wrong end of the stick again (I enjoyed the discussion regarding the IOM's electric power requirements!). Totally missed the point here haven't you? And you know what really gets me about these two posters commenting on the IOM Health Service? Neihter of them actually live here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourtess Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 The figure of £2 million is about the same as the IOM's gross spending per day. Where does it all go to allow waiting lists to creep up to 18 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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