Of All The Half Baked Daft Ideas..

[lectro]

Scrap all road taxes and load the tax on fuel instead. That way the amount of tax you pay will be proportional to the amount of miles you drive and the mpg of your vechicle. Want to pay less tax? Drive less or get a less thirsty car.

 

See - it's not just me that thinks this is logical/fair.

 

Yes but there's no point forcing people to be green if there's not a proper alternative in a cheap/free, well run, joined-up public transport infrastructure. There's another thread about that on here... If an alternative is not provided then the tax on cars is just another way of taxing people while paying lipservice to being green. Increasing tax by a couple hundred pound a year won't make people give up their cars. In fact If I had to pay £500+ road tax I'd damn well make sure to use it at every opportunity. As usual they're looking at this the wrong way. Want to really be green and get cars off the road and not just make some half hearted PR exercise out of it? Make the alternative such an attractive and cheap option that people will do it voluntarily. Taxing them into a corner just gets peoples backs up.

[Cret]

Exactly mate - hence my earlier comment about perhaps using a bit of the tax gravy to help fund research into more efficient transport. I'm not talking warp drive or anything here but much as I'm a bit of a petrolhead myself, the IC engine has been around for a very long time now and has used a lot of resource so it's time 'they' focussed on finding viable alternatives as it can't last forever.

[Tempus Fugit]

There seems to be a myth about 4x4's ripping up the tarmac.

 

Have you ever seen a 4x4 spinning wheels ?, the load exerted on the road by 4 wheels is less than that by 2 wheel drive cars, so less damage, this is also backed up by the fact that tyres on 4x4's wear out all together, not just the driven wheels wearing more than the others.

 

With all the duty and taxes on fuel they already get more from big vehicles anyway, so the 'road fund' fees are just another way to put more into the coffers to help pay for the poor civil servants, over 500 of whom took home over £50.000, 128 took home over £70,000, but sad that nobody managed to top £170,000

[Cret]

Would like to know how many people work for the government and what percentage makes up the over 50grand wage bracket. That's a lot of tax money to most of us useless worker drones for so many people to be getting paid it.

[Motivator]

We live on a rural island for God's sake! I have to drive down a track every day that's a foot deep in mud in winter, and the B road on the way home is nearly always under nine inches of water at various points after a heavy downpour. If anyone can find me a vehicle that will cope with that on a regular basis, and with an engine of less than 1,000cc I'm more than happy to listen.

 

And what about those people who need a load lugger or a 4x4 capable of towing off-road - like farmers, farm workers and horse owners. Why should they be punished for doing jobs the Island's economy would suffer from if they didn't do their work? Government is coming at the problem from completely the wrong angle if you ask me. And as someone else said earlier, that's because they can't be bothered to think up a rational response suitable for a rural Island. Much easier to just copy whatever the UK does.

 

What they SHOULD do, is have one of their traffic wardens put fixed penalty notices of £100 on huge engined 4x4's that they find parked on supermarket car parks and outside school gates at 3:30pm. I have a big (not huge) engined 4x4 by necessity. But I also have a 1300cc Ford Fiesta. And you'll never see my 4x4 parked outside Tesco, or trying to reverse into a space in the multi-storey in Douglas, or outside the school gates. I use a vehicle appropriate to the conditions/needs I require it for. If everyone did likewise, we'd all be doing our bit for climate change. Plus that way our Government (or any other for that matter) couldn't justify this ever-increasing 'back door taxation' they're allowed to constantly get away with on the supposed basis of caring for the planet.

 

I also have an 850cc Reliant Rialto in the shed which would be just perfect as the next Governor's limo!

 

Richard

x

[Cret]

What they SHOULD do, is have one of their traffic wardens put fixed penalty notices of £100 on huge engined 4x4's that they find parked on supermarket car parks and outside school gates at 3:30pm.

 

I agree with all your comments except this. What's to say that one of these outside a school is not picking a whole swarm of kids that wouldn't safely fit in a smaller car?

 

I know that's not the case a lot of the time but it could be so is not really fair.

[WTF]

What they SHOULD do, is have one of their traffic wardens put fixed penalty notices of £100 on huge engined 4x4's that they find parked on supermarket car parks and outside school gates at 3:30pm.

 

I agree with all your comments except this. What's to say that one of these outside a school is not picking a whole swarm of kids that wouldn't safely fit in a smaller car?

 

I know that's not the case a lot of the time but it could be so is not really fair.

 

 

so would you advocate that people had 5 or 6 cars and used the one that suited the task at hand??

[Cret]

so would you advocate that people had 5 or 6 cars and used the one that suited the task at hand??

 

Don't be silly.

That's obviously not practical or remotely affordable to do for just about anyone I know.

[WTF]

so would you advocate that people had 5 or 6 cars and used the one that suited the task at hand??

 

Don't be silly.

That's obviously not practical or remotely affordable to do for just about anyone I know.

 

 

me neither, but moaning because someone uses a 4x4 to get kids from school when that may be their only vehicle is stupid. i have 2 vehicles, a LWB transit van and a 125cc motorbike. i use the van to get the kids from school. not the most eco friendly transport out there but its all i have that is suitable for the task at hand. i do agree that mrs bloggs from anacoar with no kids and no 'country' hobbies has probably got no need whatsoever for a V8 range rover. but if thats the transport come status sybol she wants? it's upto her. perhaps there should only be 5 or 6 different vehicles island wide. no status symbols,and you can only have the vehicle your circumstances require. you can choose the colour though. no aircon as this uses fuel for no linear motion. all vehicles to be fords, ka's for single folks or couples with no kids or pets. focus's for them with kids. mondeo estates for them with kids and dogs. transit minibuses used for all taxi's and couples with more than 3 kids. ford 4x4 rangers for all farmers instead of nissan 200's. and ford lorries for moving containers around. sorted. all these vehicles to have the most fuel efficient motor in the range with pedal assist for hills. alternatively we all get tanks and don't bother with the roads so we won't need road tax??

[Cret]

so would you advocate that people had 5 or 6 cars and used the one that suited the task at hand??

 

Don't be silly.

That's obviously not practical or remotely affordable to do for just about anyone I know.

 

 

me neither, but moaning because someone uses a 4x4 to get kids from school when that may be their only vehicle is stupid.

 

I haven't though, at all. I think you've not read my posts properly.

 

What I think (along with most people from what I can see) is that it's one thing buying a large vehicle if you have some sort of reasonable excuse for doing it (farm/towing/lots of kids/work gear etc to lug around) - who could really complain about that?

 

But it's another thing entirely to buy it purely for the reason that you like the car and large cars are 'trendy' if you have the money.

 

I'm not saying there's even anything so wrong with that per se or that people shouldn't be allowed to choose what they buy, but someone who does this presumably can't be that bothered about the environment to use such an unecessary vehicle, compared to someone who buys one because they actually need it? I think there's a big difference.

[Dave the Cardboard Box]

Do you know, 30-40 years ago, the only 4x4's were Land Rovers owned by farmers, and the newer exotic tractors.

 

Any every one managed perfectly well in the 'rural' Island - boat owners, horse owners, without such vehicles. They just did not exist and life went on perfectly well.

 

There is no need for a 4 x 4 at all on Island roads. Except for a couple of hours on October 20th when there is a very slight chance of slipping on some autumn leaves on Rencell Hill in Laxey.

 

And that is about it.

[Cret]

Isn't that just a technicality though?

 

What I mean by that is back then people were still using vehicles with large engines for the same purposes whether they were 2wd or 4wd and that's really what it comes down to when it comes to the environmental stuff.

 

Whether a car is actually 4wd or 2wd makes a negligible difference to the environment, it's what's under the bonnet and how big it is/how dirty/how efficient.

 

So whilst I wouldn't disagree with what you've said at all I don't see how that makes much difference? Sorry if I'm missing the point but I think the argument here is really about the gas guzzle factor rather than drivetrain technicalities.

 

Am not trying to be obtuse, honest!

[WTF]

so would you advocate that people had 5 or 6 cars and used the one that suited the task at hand??

 

Don't be silly.

That's obviously not practical or remotely affordable to do for just about anyone I know.

 

 

me neither, but moaning because someone uses a 4x4 to get kids from school when that may be their only vehicle is stupid.

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying there's even anything so wrong with that per se or that people shouldn't be allowed to choose what they buy, but someone who does this presumably can't be that bothered about the environment to use such an unecessary vehicle, compared to someone who buys one because they actually need it? I think there's a big difference.

 

 

perhaps the production of these vehicles shgould be illegal then? although they do actually meet the legal requirements for emmissions though!! if your worried about the enviroment, i'd look at dumping sewage into the sea too.

[Cret]

perhaps the production of these vehicles shgould be illegal then? although they do actually meet the legal requirements for emmissions though!! if your worried about the enviroment, i'd look at dumping sewage into the sea too.

 

I think that's a bit over the top too.

 

This thread has taken a turn for the strange.

Anyway - I think I've made my opnions on large 4wds fairly clear, in that there is probably a lot of 'inappropriate' use of them just as most people on here think, but that's not to say they don't have their legitimate uses.

 

Fine if people don't happen to agree with that really, I'm just interested to hear the logical & reasonable arguments for & (mostly) against them.

[Slim]

My supercharged Jag does around 12mpg around town, so I already pay quite enough in tax on petrol and exhorbitant road tax, thank you. Having two cars and a bike, I can only use one at a time, so I'm paying for two to sit in the garage and NOT on the roads - fact is, I'm a petrolhead and it's my hobby so I have to put up with it.

 

People need to learn that we can't all behave like Stu. If it takes raising taxes to prevent people from destroying our future though a hobby, then it's fully justified. They may be better methods at judging the greeness of transport, but cars are already tax via CC, so it's a lot more effort to intruduce some other official rating. CC is on your log book, that's the best way for it to be done. And doing it this way is better than not at all.