[BBC News] Housing 'milestone' voted through

[homarus]

No! People are necessary for the economy(not developers!) and people need houses to live in .Long before D/D arrived on the island and began their campaign of Island domination , a person/s could go to govmn/t and obtain financial help to buy their own plot of land to build on .

There were any amount of building companies around the Island doing the work so houses would still be getting built

without the presence of large development companies on the island. The work would just have been spread around a bit more ,But unfortunatly the govm't took the easy way out as per usual ,and allowed the "Developers " to aquire large banks of land creating a monopoly situation where people talk about "affordable " housing at about £120-130K ,sad really?

It would be interesting to know if the scheme whereby you could obtain financial assistance to buy your own plot is still in operation, (even though its highly unlikely you could find a plot to buy)

Does anybody know???

[stookie]

- and our young people's right to have a home -

 

To own one or live in one? What right is that? They might aspire to it, and may have to work bl**dy hard to get it, but I would never consider home ownership as a "right" in itself. Maybe the European Court would be interested in hearing from people who feel their "rights" are being denied

 

You mention the problem of people coming here to retire and buying up housing stock, but what about the many locals who own a second home here? That is far worse in my view, even ignoring the poor judgment involved in putting all your eggs in one basket!

[Albert Tatlock]

- and our young people's right to have a home -

 

To own one or live in one? What right is that?

The right of the expectation to realistically aspire to own one, based on a reasonable salary, is closer to what I mean.

[Gladys]

The 'right' should be that every person on this prosperous island should be adequately (i.e. heated, plumbed and maintained), cleanly and affordably housed, whether that is in owned, privately rented or social housing. The expectation of home ownership, in itself, is not a right, but just that, an expectation or aspiration.

[grant]

When I were a lad, we lived in a cardboard box, 18 of us, had nothing to eat or drink, had to get up 2 hours before we went to bed, lick the roads clean with our bare tongues for 26 hours a day without a break, but we were happy! Those were the days, luxury.

[Lost Login]

For a £200k house the Iom Rate is 0.4% and the UK rate is 1% so difference of £1,200. If the cost though is above £250,001 in the UK the rate is 3% and above £500,001 then 4% so the difference is marked as the IoM is a flat rate of 0.4%

 

I do like reading the arguments about rights to buy, costs exhorbitant in the IoM etc etc as if they are unique IoM problems. "Affordable" housing is a UK problem though houses must be affordable to some or the prices would not be what they are as somebody is buying and selling them. It has also been an issue in the Uk for many many years especialy in rural areas where people have been buying up second homes and pricing the locals out of the market. Yes house prices might be higher in the IoM than in a fair few parts of the UK but probably not markedly so when you compare GDP in those areas and the tax relief in the IoM on mortgage interest and our low tax rates. This gives house buyers in the IoM a much higher level of disposable income which they can put into housing hence putting costs up. There are also places in the UK where it is a lot worse than in the IoM.

 

I do have sympathy with first time buyers and "essential" workers such as policeman, teachers, doctors etc who may be struggling to buy. But I have less sympathy with youngsters who want to be able to afford to buy as soon as they start work. To me that is a fairly unreasonable assumption and I certainly could not afford to buy when I started work 20 years ago. I rented and the costs were something 40% of my gross pay for a one bedromm flat with shared bathroom. I had no expectation with regard to buying a property and did not do so for at least five or six years. Neither did any of my mates.

 

The housing "problem" is not therefore in my opinion solveable until expectation about buying changes and people again accept renting as the norm for a reasonable period before they consider buying. The other ioption is a property crash or an artificial restriction on prices. A property crash might see those buying purely as investment on which you can not loose pull out of the market for a while. An artificial restriction I think will not work as it will only put more pressure on any unrestricted property and those who can not apply under any regulation. Also sellers will be a bit miffed if the price of their house falls as a result. I certainly would if I bought a house a year ago and its value fell by 20% due to some government imposed restriction or the market being flooded by new property.

 

I am not sure any of these will change, certainly not in the forseeable future so the housing market we have now is probably here to stay and there is not a lot that can be done about it.

 

 

It's the same thing, it's a tax from property sales. It's less than the uk yes, but it's hardly miniscule. For a £200 grand house the registry recordal fee is about half the UK stamp duty.

 

(Edit: also, funny how you rarely see this saving, and the mortgage interest saving when people are complaining about manx property prices)

[ai_Droid]

For a £200k house the Iom Rate is 0.4% and the UK rate is 1% so difference of £1,200. If the cost though is above £250,001 in the UK the rate is 3% and above £500,001 then 4% so the difference is marked as the IoM is a flat rate of 0.4%

 

I'm not arguing it's the same cost, I'm just saying it's not 'miniscule'. When you're already stretched to find a deposit, mortgage arrangement fees, survey fees and conveyancing fees that recordal fee is definately noticable!

 

I do like reading the arguments about rights to buy, costs exhorbitant in the IoM etc etc as if they are unique IoM problems. "Affordable" housing is a UK problem though houses must be affordable to some or the prices would not be what they are as somebody is buying and selling them. It has also been an issue in the Uk for many many years especialy in rural areas where people have been buying up second homes and pricing the locals out of the market. Yes house prices might be higher in the IoM than in a fair few parts of the UK but probably not markedly so when you compare GDP in those areas and the tax relief in the IoM on mortgage interest and our low tax rates. This gives house buyers in the IoM a much higher level of disposable income which they can put into housing hence putting costs up. There are also places in the UK where it is a lot worse than in the IoM.

 

Exactly my point, our house price inflation is roughly in line with the UK, and yet the tin hatters here are blaming some kind of secret developer cartell that exists. It's paranoid rot, and without the investment from certain large developers our house prices would be a lot higher.

 

I do have sympathy with first time buyers and "essential" workers such as policeman, teachers, doctors etc who may be struggling to buy. But I have less sympathy with youngsters who want to be able to afford to buy as soon as they start work. To me that is a fairly unreasonable assumption and I certainly could not afford to buy when I started work 20 years ago. I rented and the costs were something 40% of my gross pay for a one bedromm flat with shared bathroom. I had no expectation with regard to buying a property and did not do so for at least five or six years. Neither did any of my mates.

 

I also think that many people think they should have the right to buy a house and keep their two holidays a year, their suberu imprezza, 2/3 nights out a week, games consoles, huge telly and a spiffy mountain bike. Buying a house is expensive, you have to sacrifice.

 

I am not sure any of these will change, certainly not in the forseeable future so the housing market we have now is probably here to stay and there is not a lot that can be done about it.

 

The proposals for cgt on property sales might help cool things a little, a system like Frances where the cgt diminishes over time might work.

[BigDave]

It would be interesting to know if the scheme whereby you could obtain financial assistance to buy your own plot is still in operation, (even though its highly unlikely you could find a plot to buy)

Does anybody know???

There were supposed to be some plots released in Jurby by the government and to be made available for private individuals only.

 

the govm't took the easy way out as per usual ,and allowed the "Developers " to aquire large banks of land creating a monopoly situation where people talk about "affordable " housing at about £120-130K

Dont forget 25% of all new developments over 8 homes have to be sold as affordable housing through the First Time Buyer scheme. They are made affordable because you only have to fund 70% by means of a grant up to £25k and a mortgage. The gov't will then loan you the remaining 30% at a rate pegged below base rate.

 

For person on £19k a year wanting a £130k house on the scheme he would only have to find a mortgage of £66k. The government will grant and loan the rest. Is that "affordable" enough?

 

How is there a monopoly situation? There are currently planned developments featuring 440 homes for the FTB scheme from Heritage/Dandara, Hartford Homes, JG Kelly, Kinrade Bros, Haven Homes, Parkinson and DLGE themselves. (Less a few that have already been released). A couple of these sites are exclusively for DLGE with no open market properties at all like the new development on Johnny Wattersons Lane or the forthcoming development at Crossags Farm in Ramsey. It's also worthy of note that homes built for DLGE are built for an agreed price. The margins that the developers make on these are very small compared to what they could get on the open market.

 

 

I'm not arguing it's the same cost, I'm just saying it's not 'miniscule'.

Ok, perhaps miniscule was the wrong word. How about comparitively cheap? Like you say, people winge about not being able to afford homes on the Island, but many people in the UK are in the same situation or worse and don't get the benefit of cheaper "tax" on their house or even the 15% MIRAS now it's been phased out completely. IOM Rates are way cheaper than council tax as well, home insurance is cheaper as well. Shame about the leccy and gas though.

[stookie]

Am I the only one who thinks it is especially anti-social for locals to be building up portfolios of homes in addition to their principal private residence?

 

At least inflated house prices allow some parents the luxury of helping their children with deposits, etc. A collapse in prices would put a squeeze on most as it will directly and indirectly hit the economy.

[ai_Droid]

Ok, perhaps miniscule was the wrong word. How about comparitively cheap? Like you say, people winge about not being able to afford homes on the Island, but many people in the UK are in the same situation or worse and don't get the benefit of cheaper "tax" on their house or even the 15% MIRAS now it's been phased out completely. IOM Rates are way cheaper than council tax as well, home insurance is cheaper as well. Shame about the leccy and gas though.

 

Agreed. People over here, they don't know their born!

[ai_Droid]

Am I the only one who thinks it is especially anti-social for locals to be building up portfolios of homes in addition to their principal private residence?

 

Why? Not everyone wants to own a house, there wouldn't be a rental market is people weren't investing in property beyond their own gaff.

[Lost Login]

You do need a number to have a portfolio as otherwise there would be no property for the rental market. The question is whether this has now got out of balance? I now know individuals who own several properties to rent who are not the sort of people that in years gone by would have ever though about property rental as an investment. One actually is Manx born & bred and bought his first house as a first time buyer under the affordable housing scheme and then immediately let the spare bedrooms. Within a year he had bought some flats to rent out. He obeyed all relevent rules but I am not sure that te affordable housing scheme was really meant to be for people such as him.

 

I think parents helping out will be the way it will go in the future, especially for those of us who have benefitted from increasing prices and have or nearly have paid off the mortgage. Several generations ago you lived at home with your parents until or even after you got married in property which most probably was rented or possibly linked to the job. Some in society will return to that due to house prices but more I will expect look to and receive parental support.

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks it is especially anti-social for locals to be building up portfolios of homes in addition to their principal private residence?

 

At least inflated house prices allow some parents the luxury of helping their children with deposits, etc. A collapse in prices would put a squeeze on most as it will directly and indirectly hit the economy.

[ai_Droid]

You do need a number to have a portfolio as otherwise there would be no property for the rental market. The question is whether this has now got out of balance? I now know individuals who own several properties to rent who are not the sort of people that in years gone by would have ever though about property rental as an investment.

 

I think in the first half of this decade it may have gotten out of hand. These days interest rates vs price inflation vs rent returns isn't that great, so I don't think there's an awful lot of buy to let going on.

 

I think parents helping out will be the way it will go in the future, especially for those of us who have benefitted from increasing prices and have or nearly have paid off the mortgage. Several generations ago you lived at home with your parents until or even after you got married in property which most probably was rented or possibly linked to the job. Some in society will return to that due to house prices but more I will expect look to and receive parental support.

 

Sure, but the problem is parents are living longer and are more socially active, so they want/need that equity cash as much as the kids. Certainly I've gotten no help from my parents, they're too busy living it up!

[Lost Login]

I got no help from my parents except the "if ever you need a loan to tied you over gives us a call" but I think they knew I would to stubborn to accept and be determined to manage on my own as I would see it as failure if I had to ask them to help out. But then I was also prepared to rent and scrimp and save before I bought a house etc etc.

 

My wealth now is much more than my parents at the same age, just as theirs is better than their parents. That is just a sign of the times and the way we live. I expect that I will have to help out my kids through college if they want to go, fund a deposit on a house. There will be strings attached. My parents on my kids being born also put a lump of money aside for each of their grand children which is invested and is mine to pass across as and when they might have use of it. This will be the first time my kids are aware of it as it is not to be fittered away nor di I want them to be wreckless aware that there is a fall back to bail them out.

 

Ultimately though it will probably be my parents who fund much of what I might be able to assist the kids with as it is unfortunately unlikely that they will both survive both reaching adulthood. That is again a result of life today when generally people are waiting longer befor havings kids. On my parents death unless they give it to some old dogs home charity that element of their wealth they have not managed to spend will partly flow down to me which in turn I hope I can use to help give my kids a kick start. I think there will be many people in that position.

 

 

 

Sure, but the problem is parents are living longer and are more socially active, so they want/need that equity cash as much as the kids. Certainly I've gotten no help from my parents, they're too busy living it up!