Newsbot Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Prison staff are carrying out training courses to enable them to offer stop- smoking counselling to prisoners. Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/...man/6910813.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Nicotine addicted prisoners to be given counselling http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=8018 Our government have decided that there will be no smoking in the New Prison. Fair enough, I see no problem with that.. But if they are going to bring in a law why should we pay to give people in prison counselling. (er, if they can afford to smoke cigarettes they can afford to pay for their own counselling). Surely it is simply a case of it's against the law don't do it. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I think this is very a bad idea. The head of the prison service, Phil Wheatley, warned government ministers in 2005 that "banning smoking in prisons would cause disorder and an increase in assaults on staff". This is a breach of article 6 of the European convention on human rights, which guarantees respect for private and family life i.e. to stop them smoking there when they are not free to go elsewhere constitutes "a disproportionate interference with their right to do what they want in their own home as long as it poses no harm to anyone else." This also discriminates against smoking prisoners wrt non-smoking prisoners - remember, tobacco is a perfectly legal substance - and coming off tobacco is traumatic enough - never mind doing it whilst being sent to prison. IMO, this is more about nanny-state politics, the 'hang em high' brigade and people with their own anti-smoking agenda - rather than well thought out policy. This is the prisoners home. Such a policy has been introduced in the Rampton high security hospital, and is being challenged on these grounds (due to be heard in September 2007). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 One of the aims of prison is rehabilitation of offenders, so it seems proper that anti-social behaviours such as smoking should be addressed as part of that rehabilitation. Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermes Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 It's just a shame that prison medical authorities are responsible for providing prisoners with prescriptions (and addicitions) to tranquilisers and sleeping tablets. Go in to prison a smack addict and leave (still a smack addict) and addicted to 'benzos' and 'sleepers'. That is what appears to be happening, and is seen by the authorities as streaming drug addicts into 'treatment'. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't abstinence from drugs the goal of really helping someone? Cigs are a classic example of where to start tackling the behaviour, but it needs to go further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 One of the aims of prison is rehabilitation of offenders, so it seems proper that anti-social behaviours such as smoking should be addressed as part of that rehabilitation. Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime... So smokers are now all criminals and all need to be rehabilitated for the habit? You live in La La land some days. I suggest you go back to your Daily Mail crossword - you only have 18 hours left to finish it before tommorow's comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 So smokers are now all criminals and all need to be rehabilitated for the habit? Sounds like a plan. Maybe we could use cigarette duties to pay for the counselling and nicotine patches? P.S. Have amended my location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 "No you can't have a last fag...don't you realise how bad those things are for you?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 How are they going to stop the inmates smoking? I'm pretty sure injecting yourself with heroin whilst in the nick is banned too but that doesn't seem to stop the cons. Where there's a will there's a way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2004 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 "This is a breach of article 6 of the European convention on human rights, which guarantees respect for private and family life i.e. to stop them smoking there when they are not free to go elsewhere constitutes "a disproportionate interference with their right to do what they want in their own home as long as it poses no harm to anyone else." This also discriminates against smoking prisoners wrt non-smoking prisoners - remember, tobacco is a perfectly legal substance - and coming off tobacco is traumatic enough - never mind doing it whilst being sent to prison." Frankly I don't care, they have probably breached someones human rights when they kicked their head in, robbed their house etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 The Report on a full announced inspection of Isle of Man prison makes interesting reading. If I were a cynic, I might suspect that announcements such as those regarding anti-smoking policies, were simply geared to gain public support from the 'take away their rights and hang em high' brigade and divert attention from the various failures identified in the last inspection. Although some of these issues are likely to be improved with the building of the new prison, many of these issues seem to me to be quite fundamental basic failures - given that this is the 21st century: HP45 A bullying analysis should be undertaken and the results used to develop a bullying strategy. All staff should be trained in how to deal with incidents. HP46 The safer custody committee should develop and oversee a strategy to help reduce the risk of self-harm and to provide the necessary support and services to those prisoners who threaten or attempt to self-harm. HP47 The arrangements for the delivery of healthcare to become the responsibility of the Isle of Man Health Service should be expedited. HP48 A health needs assessment of prisoners should be carried out and a health delivery plan devised to ensure that the correct services, including out-of-hours cover, are in place to meet the needs of the population. HP49 There should be sufficient purposeful activity for all prisoners, with the opportunity to gain educational and skills qualifications. HP50 Juveniles under 18 should not be held in the Isle of Man prison. HP51 Women should be held in separately-managed accommodation, with facilities and procedures that are specific to their needs. HP52 The Department of Home Affairs, with other relevant bodies, should consider developing a comprehensive multi-agency strategy for reducing reoffending and providing end-to-end management of offenders during and after imprisonment. HP53 The prison should develop and implement a resettlement strategy, based upon the assessed needs of its different populations. In short, it seems that prisoners on the island in 2006: could get bullied more often than most; had a higher than necessary risk of self harm; had healthcare services not being professionally delivered which posed serious risks to prisoner safety and staff - with no out of hours service; nothing to do and all day to do it, with few educational or skill opportunties; a poor chance of being rehabilitated; and a high chance of being dumped on the street after serving their sentence and not being resettled. Oh well, I suppose it's a good job that I'm not a cynic - as it would seem to appear that in 2006 the 'take away their rights and hang em high' brigade had got their way i.e a fully oiled revolving-door prison system. It will be interesting to see the results of the next inspection. It appears that Home Affairs Minister Martyn Quayle MHK - has many bigger fish yet to fry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 But if they are going to bring in a law why should we pay to give people in prison counselling. (er, if they can afford to smoke cigarettes they can afford to pay for their own counselling). In another thread was it not you arguing that drink drivers should not pay for their own rehabilitation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 when they kicked their head in, robbed their house etc etc. Not all people in prison are there for violent crimes or theft. I think they might find it harder to make the prisoners quit than they imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 when they kicked their head in, robbed their house etc etc. Not all people in prison are there for violent crimes or theft. I think they might find it harder to make the prisoners quit than they imagine. As far as I am aware, the idea of prison is to punish someone for a serious crime, and to act as a deterrant to others. When one goes into prison they lose a large portion of their freedom. For example, it is not a prisoner's human right to drink alcohol as and when they please, even if they are adicted. Nor is it their right to be able to smoke. Smoking (for some) is a pleasure and a privilege, not an human right nor a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doric Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Smoking can be a pretty strong addiction. What they should do is say "You can only have a smoke only if you stitch 50 mail bags today" or "A cigarette for every tonne of rocks you break" or whatever they do these days. It wouldnt be slave labour because they are getting rewarded with something very special to them. Maybe we should bring in the same principle out of prison because there are a lot of addicts who arent prisoners walking the streets. So if the addict works in an office: "You can have a smoke once you've filed this mountain of papers" or if you work say as bricklayer "You can have a cigarette once you've built this wall of a house". Anyway, you get my point. So in effect society is actually harnassing the power of the drug and that way we all benefit because we get things done cheaper and the smokers are happy because they can sit and smoke. Plus also if the wall wasnt built correctly you could refuse to give them a cigarette until they fix it. The only problem is that supply of this rather nasty drug would have to be pretty well controlled , but you get what I'm driviing at. I know smokers will say "You wont make me do anything" but I bet after an hour or two but definietly after a day, most will be scratching their own eyes out for a cigarette and will do just about anything for a smoke and would soon build that wall. It is a very powerful drug addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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