Juans

[Declan]

Frances's post on the cushag thread, in which she pointed out the commonly held belief that cushag was the national flower of the Island, started out as a joke by a former governor, got me thinking in a round about way about the name Juan.

 

You see I have a theory, that a lot of beliefs we hold true started life as a throwaway joke, which when repeated enough become true. An example of that would be that in Shakespeare's time it was commonly held that Julius Caeser built the Tower of London. Is it not possible that that misconception began life as a little jape by a jester at a Plantagent court and by Shakespeare's time people took it as gospel.

 

I did a bit of this myth building myself once. I invented the idea that the name Juan was imported into the Island when a boat from the Armada ran ashore on Spanish Head. Now the tale of the Spanish warship is probably bollocks anyway - no doubt the product of an earlier japester's mind, so I didn't think my expanding on it to include the origins in Manx of the name Juan would have much creedance. So imagine my surprise years later to have someone declare authoritatively to me that the first Juans on Mann were Spanish ones (or Juans).

 

Anyway to get to the point of this thread, I wonder what is the real origin of the name Juan. I have a theory that it is not a traditional Manx name at all but is actually a relatively new coinage, like Kylie or Kevin. My reason for saying this is I cannot think of any old Juans.

 

I know lots of Juans, but none of them were born before the Sixties. None of my parents friends are called Juan, my mother never reminisces about "Old Juan So 'n' So from Ballawhatsit". Similarly, on the larger scale of Manx life we now have two Tynwald members name Juan (Turner and Watterson) but both were born well after the 60's. None of the old guard are named Juan, and I can't remember any MHK's, MLC's or deemsters of that name in the past.

 

Is it possible that the name is not really a traditional Manx name, but one that inexplicably took hold in the sixties and that we all now assume is as old and as Manx as the hills?

[Gladys]

Well, I am kind of 60's (1960 to be precise) and I was always led to believe that Juan was a Manx name. But havng thought about it, I cannot remember any older Juans (can't remember any younger Juans either, but that is my problem!)

 

But wasn't there a plant hire company that had Juan in its name in the 70's?

[The Bastard]

The proper form of "John" is actually "Ean" in Manx - in the Manx bible, "St. John" is "Noo Ean".

 

"Juan" is an informal form, like "Jack" that's become associated with "John" in modern times.

[Frances]

I suggest the old Manx was Ewan - often modded to Hugh on emigration or to Evan and then by connection to Welsh Evan (which I think is probably Eon by a different route) - the form Juan is almost certainly post-Benidorm holidays of the 60's.

[Stavros]

Apparently, Juan appears as a traditional Manx name in both of the following published works:

 

Cubbon, William, Christian Names of the Isle of Man, 1923

 

Kneen, J. J., Manx Personal Names, 1937

 

The earliest reference that I could find was on the Manx National Heritage website

 

"A slab dating from about 1200AD has the runic inscription

 

Juan priest cut these runes

 

and another one of three found at the Corony Keeill (Keeill Woirrey) reads

 

Christ, Malachi, Patrick and Adamnan. But of all the sheep is Juan priest in Corndale."

 

Stav.

[Frances]

Juan (pronounounced EWE-an) is I agree the old form - but seldom seem in names (certainly post 1700 - do a search on the 4000+ wills summarised on Manxnotebook ) when Ewan was the usual form (tho that was not that popular tho it did run in families) - I suspect John was used in all formal documents even if the person was referred to Juan - Juan does appear in various Manx songs from 18th C onwards (possibly archaic spelling?) - it was the JEW-an form that derived from Spain

[lisner]

Heh! a good post Declan.

 

I think the Spanish Head connection to Juan has been around for many years.

 

There is a story that when the Ordnance Survey military chaps roamed these lands doing their work, the main source of naming places was to use local history and ask the inhabitants. The Spanish Head story was supposedly given as a joke to wind the foreign gents up.

 

I don't go with this story and want to believe there was a wreck of the Spanish Armada and survivors on the Island. The Armada was scattered up the coast of Ireland and it is not inconceivable there was a stray hit our rock.

 

Coming from England and growing up in the deep south as a nipper, I certainly noticed there were more dark haired darker skinned people at school with me than my previous school.

 

A search on Frances' Manxnotebook site for Juan will give plenty of results for Juan

although a search of the list of members of the House of Keys going back to 1417 Tynwald Website finds only one Juan - your very own current MHK for Rushen Mr Watterson.

[*daniel*]

Juan (IPA: [xwan]) is a Spanish form of the given name John. It was the 55th most popular name in the United States as of 2003. Juan is the Latinised version of the Greek name Ioannis. It is also commonly found in the Isle of Man, where it has a different pronunciation.

 

wiki.

 

Perhaps we had a comeover. Your "myth" is not that unbelievable. Perhaps it wasn't a ship from the Amarda...and it might not of run aground, apart from that it sounds plausible, so something that sounds plausible is bound to spread right.

[Rhumsaa]

Juan means Well Born in manx...

[thebees]

My husband has a touch of the spanish in him but he isnt called Juan, should I ask him to change his name?

[Declan]

Rhumsaa - Seemingly, not since it is only in this egalitarian age that they've been allowed into Tynwald. Maybe it was a plebeian name in the past?

[Rhumsaa]

clearly it is true that Juans are indeed well born

[Fossils]

Juan (IPA: [xwan]) is a Spanish form of the given name John. It was the 55th most popular name in the United States as of 2003. Juan is the Latinised version of the Greek name Ioannis. It is also commonly found in the Isle of Man, where it has a different pronunciation.

 

wiki.

 

Perhaps we had a comeover. Your "myth" is not that unbelievable. Perhaps it wasn't a ship from the Amarda...and it might not of run aground, apart from that it sounds plausible, so something that sounds plausible is bound to spread right.

 

Juan is almost certainly of Spanish Armada comeover origin. You only have to look at the natural colouring, hair, eyes and skin, of a number of the "native" Manx in the South to appreciate the high possibility of a link.

 

The following photos (not all Juans) illustrate my point.

Finally, the famous Port Erin Bull Running says it all.

[John Wright]

I think you have to apply a bit of linguistic history to it.

 

I have no doubt that Juan is a manx male forename going back multiple generations, thing is Manx was never a written language until it was written down by English speakers using English phonetics in the 18th Century. Before that official documents were in English and before that they were in Latin

 

This is a list of members of the Keys from 15 century to 1930's

 

Note all in English, almost, and spelling is a bit hiot and miss, especially early on.

 

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/people/keys/list.htm

 

There are lots of Johns, and a few Johens (well before the Armada). The thing is that was the English trnalation of their name for the business of the keys. They were wealthy men, bound to be bi lingual. What we don't know is what they were called day to day, at home and work, in manx. No resaon why not Juan. We don't know how Johen would have sounded

 

Note no Illiams in the list, just Williams or Wm,

 

I just think you are not comparing like with like.

 

I beleive the Ioannis Greek root has worked through to Scots Ian, Ean, Ewan and to Manx Juan as well as to English John and Spanish Juan through biblical translations etc and has been araound a very long time

[Declan]

But does anyone know a Juan born before 1960? Had it fallen into disuse, before being revived?