Juans

[Fossils]

Juan Priest! were they a tribute act?

 

I saw the Brian Wilson Band at the Villa Marina play a great tribute song to the famous Manx-Spaniard, Juan Addenz.

[Declan]

Juan Priest! were they a tribute act?

go read the runes ! + P M C Kermode's rather laboured historical story based on it (in Mannin)

 

Don't forget the movie.

[Dave the Cardboard Box]

I was at the Path Lab a few years ago, and was authoritatively told that there are a number of people living south of the bridge who have a quite rare genetic blood disorder, which requires monitoring.

 

The only other pockets of this disorder, where it is more common, are on the Mediterranean coasts of Spain and France, and the Path Lab people deduced that those down south with the disorder must have a genetic and ancestral history from coastal Spain/France. The distribution is such that it must have started here several hundred years ago.

 

Definitely fits with the Armada theory.

[Declan]

I thought it had been said that all the boats from the Armada had been accounted for, and the Island wasn't one of the final resting places.

 

However, Dave's tale of a genetic disorder that only appears in the south and in Spain, the number of darker skinned southerners, the folk memory that seems to have been passed on for generations, and the name Spanish Head, suggests otherwise.

 

Could another Spanish ship have run aground at Spanish Head at another time, and over the years the idea that this was from the Armada has taken hold?

[Bieryes]

I have found this topic of great interesting. There has also been a lot of intelectual talking and some perhaps not so, but perhaps pseudo-intelectual or they don't like someone known more than them on any subject so they just blah-blah as we call it, you call it bs. It happens a bit on this forums from time to time.

 

There are many Spanish and such on the Ilsnad today and I am sure if they knew some of these swarthies from south they will say "yeah, he is like from home" Sorted.

 

ps Just in case, are there any womans from south with darker hair and such or is it just the lifeboat men and decorators and such?

[Declan]

I think we’ve established the truth now.

 

The first Juan on the Isle of Man was Juan Priest, although he may have been named Ewan, Evan, John or Johen. He landed at Spanish Head sometime between 1200 and 1960, as part of the Spanish Armada (probably because he set off very early or very late).

 

Once here he earned his living fitting carpets and in his spare time played in a Heavy Metal tribute band. He had a profound impact on the Isle of Man, introducing, not only his first name, but a rare genetic disorder, and the sun tan.

[OneArmedScissor]

Well it seems safe to say that none of the Spanish Armada landed on the island, but what about the possibility of some of those who were shipwrecked on Ireland having made it to the IOM?

 

If I recall correctly, the English army slaughtered most of those who landed in Ireland, so surely it's conceivable that some managed to escape and found their way here?

 

I'd be happy with that story.

[Fossils]

I think we’ve established the truth now.

 

The first Juan on the Isle of Man was Juan Priest, although he may have been named Ewan, Evan, John or Johen. He landed at Spanish Head sometime between 1200 and 1960, as part of the Spanish Armada (probably because he set off very early or very late).

 

Once here he earned his living fitting carpets and in his spare time played in a Heavy Metal tribute band. He had a profound impact on the Isle of Man, introducing, not only his first name, but a rare genetic disorder, and the sun tan.

 

Wasn't Juan Priest responsible for building the bull ring at Shughlaigquiggin?

[Declan]

Well it seems safe to say that none of the Spanish Armada landed on the island, but what about the possibility of some of those who were shipwrecked on Ireland having made it to the IOM?

 

If I recall correctly, the English army slaughtered most of those who landed in Ireland, so surely it's conceivable that some managed to escape and found their way here?

 

I'd be happy with that story.

 

Some escaped to Scotland so it is a possibility.

[Stavros]

Let's not forget about own Juan the Conqueror. First he went of on a quest to conquer Dakar and now he's planning the return invasion of Timbuktu.

 

That's gotta beat writing graffiti on crosses.

 

Stav.

[The Bastard]

From Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts

 

Bryan Sykes claims that the Picts and most modern day Scots can trace ancestry to northern Spain based on the frequencies of male clan Oisín (Haplogroup R1b) and on many female clans.

 

Spanish genetic origins are likely to be much older than the Armada, which seems to be used as a corny "deus ex machina" every time something unusual crops up on the island, from Manx cats to Juans.

 

There's no evidence that any vessel of the Armada was wrecked here, and even more unlikely that a handful of survivors arriving apparently unnoticed by the authorities & deciding to stay in a hostile country would account for genetic factors in an entire population. The Armada episode occurs quite late in Manx history, and the route of the Armada vessels took them around the west of Ireland, rather than through the Irish Sea [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada].

 

It's quite likely that there are many manxies whose ancestors arrived here from Northern Spain thousands of years before Sir Francis Drake cast a bowl.

[John Wright]

C’raad nish?

[cheeky boy]

Survivors from the Spanish Armada coming ashore and inbreeding with the local population, sounds like the immigration scare story of its day.

 

It has got it all really: boat people, dark skinned foreigners, can't speak English,or Manx. I bet if there were council houses in those days they'd be accused of getting one before the locals. Not to mention getting preferential treatment at ye olde Nobles and nicking all the good jobs.

[VinnieK]

The Armada episode occurs quite late in Manx history, and the route of the Armada vessels took them around the west of Ireland, rather than through the Irish Sea [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada].

 

It's quite likely that there are many manxies whose ancestors arrived here from Northern Spain thousands of years before Sir Francis Drake cast a bowl.

 

I think the blood condition being referred to here it haemochromatosis, in which case it's not true that the only pockets of incidence occur in the Isle of Man and parts of Spain. In actuality the disorder is one that's particularly associated with the celts, who migrated to France, Spain, and the British Isles millenia ago (and is relatively common in regions of these areas). Hence the connection between the populations of the Isle of Man and Spain expressed by this disorder is more likely to be a common set of ancestors than one group interacting directly with the other.

[Freggyragh]

I reckon the name Juan in Mannin predates the Armada by about four hundred years.

 

Juan, Yuan & Ewan are the same.

 

Juan - Nominative / Accusative

Yuan - Vocative / Dative / Genitive / Possessive

Ewan - alternative spelling of Yuan - also common alternative spelling in Scotland , eg McEwan - the son of Juan.

 

John / Ewan / Ian - Common English translations for Juan found in old official documents. (It was common to have two names in the past, a Manx one and an English one - eg Neddy Beg Hom Ruy - Edward Faragher, Illiam Dhone - William Christian.)

 

Celtic nouns, including proper names, may lenite inititial constonants and broaden or slenderise vowels according to case.

The sound of 'j' lenites to 'y'. The letter J did not exist in Old Gaelic - most of the 'j' sounds in Manx are actually lenited 'd's -- and are written as such in Irish and Scottish. Because the Latin form was Ioannes, and Old Gaelic would not have had a 'J' sound in a name's initial position, the older form was Ean.

 

There are plenty of instances of Ean / Eoin /Ioan in Old Gaelic. Things changed with the arrival of the Normans, but the form Ean is still used in Manx when referring to Biblical characters, or in placenames connected with a saint - usually in the form Eoin (pronounced 'Owen') - meaning 'of (Saint) John'.

 

The Normans followed a trend of make Latin 'i' sounds into 'j' sounds - eg Iudea - Judea, iuvenali - juvenille, iudex - judge. The Norman name Jehan was their attempt at the Latin Ioannes. Pronounced with the stress on the first syllable (as Norman French probably did), you get something quite close to Juan.

 

- The Irish liked the name but were too conservative in their grammar to allow a name to begin with J - so in Ireland Jehan became Sean, The English liked the name but shortened it John, the French liked it but shortened it to Jean. The Manx just added a slight vowel shift to the first syllable to get Juan - and of course the rest of Europe with their Johanns and Juans weren't under the Normans so didn't take up the 'j' sounds at all. By this reckoning I would say Juan has been a Manx name for nine hundred years or more and is as Manx as Sean is Irish, Jean is French and John is English.

 

Lhiu.