Conducting Business In Manx

[Jimcalagon]

Unfortunately, a growing number do speak Manx, which renders your arguments pretty much superfluous. Are you sure you're not living on the Isle of Wight by mistake ?

 

You are confusing the ability to speak manx with the actual use of the language in daily life.

 

Most people in England, under Norman rule, still spoke English (or old/middle english if you want to be picky) as their first language despite the fact that it wasn't used for official functions. Do you know of anyone in the IOM who speaks manx as their first language and uses it almost exclusively on a daily basis?

[Sebrof]

English and Manx are not in the same boat at all. After the Norman Conquest, Norman French was used by the Normans, and those who had to deal with them, whilst English continued to be spoken by the majority. In the Isle of Man, by contrast, the Manx themselves have rejected the Manx language, and no longer speak it. Ein Volk, Ein Reich etc. etc.

 

Unfortunately, a growing number do speak Manx, which renders your arguments pretty much superfluous. Are you sure you're not living on the Isle of Wight by mistake ?

 

Don't delude yourself. Nobody speaks it as their primary language, and only a handful "speak" it at all (as opposed to having "learned" it for two terms at school).

 

Despite my comments, I am all for people learning Manx, and for promoting the learning of Manx. But it's counter-productive to force it down people's throats (which is what the law is doing). And the sort of woolly arguments expressed here don't help it either.

[The Bastard]

I bet the kids and teachers at the Manx-language medium school would be surprised to learn that they don't use it as their primary language, or in daily life (as would quite a number of the speakers).

 

Nobody's advocating "forcing manx down people's throats", but surely it should be possible to write a cheque in manx in the Isle of Man without causing a fit of paranoia from the monoglot English-wannabes.

 

Part of the revival of the language depends on the ability to use it in everyday life - surely preventing someone from using their own language in their own country smacks of the removal of fundamental human rights. Learning to read cheques is hardly rocket science after all, is it ?

[Jimcalagon]

I bet the kids and teachers at the Manx-language medium school would be surprised to learn that they don't use it as their primary language, or in daily life (as would quite a number of the speakers).

 

Are you really saying that there are people on the island who speak manx as their first language? I know some children who attended the bunscooil (sp?) and they certainly don't speak manx as their primary language (or even fluently).

[The Bastard]

Yes, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunscoill_Gaelgagh - why not ask for a visit, provided you're safe around children ?

[Jimcalagon]

Yes, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunscoill_Gaelgagh - why not ask for a visit, provided you're safe around children ?

 

Nah, I'm not that interested. As I say, my daughter is at school with a couple of kids who went there (not full time - one day a week) and they certainly are not fluent manx speakers. In fact my daughter is better at manx than they are, based on her one or two lessons a week..

 

I'm guessing the real number of people here who have manx as their first language is pretty much the same as the number of people in Rome who have latin as their first language.

[conradthewoollyllama]

I don't think there's anything wrong with writing a check in manx on the Isle of Man. I wouldn't say all business should be conducted in manx, but it's not hard to work out what's on the check i'm sure (especially not if the date's in numbers).

 

In regard to the comment about the children who attended the bunscoill one day a week, obviously they're not going to be fluent in manx, however, those who go there every day, as many of the children there do, are fluent speakers and switch between the two languages. I know two people who were spoken to in manx as they grew up as well as English so have spoken both equally.

 

Manx isn't being forced down peoples throats, but there's no harm in awareness. I'm proud of the culture and language of the island, and i'm glad that others are too

[Jimcalagon]

Manx isn't being forced down peoples throats...

 

Apart from the children whose parents decide to send them to the Bunscoill, that is.

[Skeddan]

Here I would go down the welsh route and have bilingual signs etc etc. These could be introduced on new signs or as they require replacing. For public bodies such as the Government and local authoritie this would be compulsory, for the rest of us it would be a matter of choice.

 

It would also in my opinion be a better way of introducing a few words of Manx to the population as a whole as if we saw them every day we would soon pick up common words.

 

IMO there's a lot to be said for the notion of introducing just a few words to the population as a whole. A start might be made by just having simple greetings in Manks - shouldn't be too hard to learn and understand. If nothing else it adds a sense of local flavour to the place, and adds to sense of community

 

12 words /expressions: 'hello', 'welcome', 'good morning', 'good afternoon', 'good evening', 'goodbye', 'excuse me', 'sorry', 'please', 'thank you', 'you're welcome', 'have a nice day'.

 

If these few words were widely adopted in everyday use (with tourists encouraged to learn a few of these words), it would be good for the tourist industry, and would "make the Island appear more Manx and not like another English County".

 

Manx isn't being forced down peoples throats, but there's no harm in awareness. I'm proud of the culture and language of the island, and i'm glad that others are too smile.gif

 

IMO it would be nice if Manx businesses and public authorities shared this attitude by using Manks greetings as standard (in same way that the Maori / Pacific Island greeting, 'Kia ora' is often used in NZ, and is now part of NZ English). So perhaps there will be Manx English....

 

Apart from anything else, I think using just this basic 'Manx English' would be good for business - encouraging customer loyalty by showing they are 'local' and part of the community.

[P.K.]

IMO there's a lot to be said for the notion of introducing just a few words to the population as a whole. A start might be made by just having simple greetings in Manks - shouldn't be too hard to learn and understand. If nothing else it adds a sense of local flavour to the place, and adds to sense of community

 

12 words /expressions: 'hello', 'welcome', 'good morning', 'good afternoon', 'good evening', 'goodbye', 'excuse me', 'sorry', 'please', 'thank you', 'you're welcome', 'have a nice day'.

Are you kidding me or what? The very last thing needed is that appalling US platitude. In the end I got so fed up with hearing it I would automatically reply "I've made other plans!".

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with kids learning a little bit about their own dead language. And it is a DEAD language. Let's not make any bones about that one. But while there is nothing wrong with learning ancient Greek or Latin then there is no reason why Manx shouldn't be taught as a "hobby" subject for want of a better word.

 

The Welsh idiots do make me laugh though. Just seeing what they have invented for motorway services, or keyboard, or television, or whatever. Joke stuff.

[Skeddan]

And it is a DEAD language. Let's not make any bones about that one.

Is it even a language as such?

 

I (perhaps mistakenly) thought Manx Gaelic was a variant of Gaelic alongside Irish, Scots and Breton Gaelic. I might be wrong, but I thought this was sort of similar to how there is American English, Australian English, and British English etc.. There are different spellings and pronounciations, but these are essentially the same in grammar, core vocabulary etc. Are these forms of English three different languages or three variants of one language? Is Gaelic a dead language? Depends what you mean by a 'Dead Language', but probably not as I believe there are still people who speak this as their main language - I think it's even recognised as an official language by the EU.

[Lost Login]

The Welsh idiots do make me laugh though. Just seeing what they have invented for motorway services, or keyboard, or television, or whatever. Joke stuff.

 

So are we/you British or English idiots if we "translate" a noun into english that describes something that did not previously exist but was invented by say the Japanase, Chimnese, Russian, Germans etc and they named first. Mind you the examples you give are pretty daft seeing that motorway, keyboard, television are words "invented" in english by joing two other words together which describe the object

 

Maybe we should also call Elephants etc by their native african or asian names, if we do not aready and I doubt we do since the white and black rhino are so named as the good old british explorers toke wide to mean white when their guides were desrbing their mouths.

[P.K.]

The Welsh idiots do make me laugh though. Just seeing what they have invented for motorway services, or keyboard, or television, or whatever. Joke stuff.

So are we/you British or English idiots if we "translate" a noun into english that describes something that did not previously exist but was invented by say the Japanase, Chimnese, Russian, Germans etc and they named first. Mind you the examples you give are pretty daft seeing that motorway, keyboard, television are words "invented" in english by joing two other words together which describe the object

 

Maybe we should also call Elephants etc by their native african or asian names, if we do not aready and I doubt we do since the white and black rhino are so named as the good old british explorers toke wide to mean white when their guides were desrbing their mouths.

BS. With their rediculous nationalist "Come Home to a Real Fire" signs in both languages they're left having to invent words. Which to me completely defeats the object. Language should be able to evolve.

 

And it is a DEAD language. Let's not make any bones about that one.

Is it even a language as such?

 

I (perhaps mistakenly) thought Manx Gaelic was a variant of Gaelic alongside Irish, Scots and Breton Gaelic. I might be wrong, but I thought this was sort of similar to how there is American English, Australian English, and British English etc.. There are different spellings and pronounciations, but these are essentially the same in grammar, core vocabulary etc. Are these forms of English three different languages or three variants of one language? Is Gaelic a dead language? Depends what you mean by a 'Dead Language', but probably not as I believe there are still people who speak this as their main language - I think it's even recognised as an official language by the EU.

I view a language as dead if there are no more speakers where it is their first language naturally picked up from birth.

Clue: there needs to be more than one of them...

[Lost Login]

BS. With their rediculous nationalist "Come Home to a Real Fire" signs in both languages they're left having to invent words. Which to me completely defeats the object. Language should be able to evolve.

 

"Rediculous" is that an invented or evolving word. And as for having to invent words for "Come Home to a Real Fire" I think they could manage that well enough in their own language although it is neraly 20 years since I saw one in either

 

I have to admit though you have now lost me as I am not sure what you are arguing as on the one hand you state language shoild be left to evolve and on the other hand you complain about the "invention" of new words. Well surely new words are part of the evolution of a language?

[P.K.]

Dear me, no wonder you're lost. The slogan "Come Home to a Real Fire" was being punted around at the same time that the welsh nationalist wankers calling themselves "The Sons of Owain Glen Dwr" (look it up) were burning down what they thought were holiday cottages owned by english but needless to say they got that wrong as well. Fancy not knowing that little bit of Welsh history

 

The point is that you don't need roadsigns in Welsh to preserve the culture. After all, they can't even agree amongst themselves. On roadsigns in North Wales they put the welsh first and in South Wales they put the english first. Now if there were drivers in Wales who didn't know what "SLOW" meant then fair enough. But face it, they all do or they shouldn't be driving. It's like a "ONE WAY" sign. Drivers see the white arrow on a blue background in a rectangle and know it means one way. In Wales it has to have "UN FFORDD" written on it as well. Why, do they not know the sign means one way or something? I think it's as pathetic as writing cheques in gaelic knowing full well that the bank employees are just as likely to be non-manx as manx.

 

Frankly while the Welsh insist on having dual-language roadsigns I think they should all be banned from driving anywhere else in the UK. Because if they don't understand the roadsigns in english then driving in england is clearly too dangerous for them. QED....