Grianane Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We got a form at the work address too, again no one lives there. Simple answer really is to make all residents have an ID card - before the human right lobby whinges you already need proof of ID for banks, driving licence, bus pass etc. a single card which could incorporate all an individuals service access needs wouldn't be too hard to sort and how many people can genuinely say they haven't already got an identity card of some sort. (ie Student card, Bank card, Driving Licence, Passport, Bus Pass, Employment ID, NI card, any card with biometric or pin facilities linked to a database) Back to the point, no card = no dentist, doctor, housing, benefits, driving licence, work permit, voter registration, ability to hold a resident bank account, shoprite loyalty card etc. etc. Result a complete list of residents (not just those who didn't hide from the census), complete jury list, complete list of income tax customers, and more to the point an accurate and up to date count of how many people we already have, what infrastructure and service levels we have to resource now and in the future and, at last, the ability to say STOP 85,000 people is enough, no more imigration, and the justification to ask our politicians why they are avoiding making this long outstanding decision on population limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We got a form at the work address too, again no one lives there. Simple answer really is to make all residents have an ID card - before the human right lobby whinges you already need proof of ID for banks, driving licence, bus pass etc. a single card which could incorporate all an individuals service access needs wouldn't be too hard to sort and how many people can genuinely say they haven't already got an identity card of some sort. (ie Student card, Bank card, Driving Licence, Passport, Bus Pass, Employment ID, NI card, any card with biometric or pin facilities linked to a database) Back to the point, no card = no dentist, doctor, housing, benefits, driving licence, work permit, voter registration, ability to hold a resident bank account, shoprite loyalty card etc. etc. Result a complete list of residents (not just those who didn't hide from the census), complete jury list, complete list of income tax customers, and more to the point an accurate and up to date count of how many people we already have, what infrastructure and service levels we have to resource now and in the future and, at last, the ability to say STOP 85,000 people is enough, no more imigration, and the justification to ask our politicians why they are avoiding making this long outstanding decision on population limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Simple answer really is to make all residents have an ID card I don't see that an ID card would necessarily solve the problem. The government seem to have this record of one department not talking to another. An example I mentioned in a similar thread was where employers have to fill our earnings survey forms so the govt can work out average earnings, etc., despite them already having the T14 returns from employers and also the employees tax returns. They say that because of the data protection act the department that has the tax returns can't give the information to the department that calculates the average earnings. I say let the department that gets the tax returns also calculate the average earnings. Surely they could link voters list / jury list to tax returns or census returns, or at least use if for a basis for the list? I think the governments scorched earth policy regarding the voters list might backfire on them, it seems a lot of people don't give a rats ass if they're on the list or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barber Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 No individual requirement, it is an obligation of householders, dating back to when voting was property ownership related Registration of Electors Act 2006 s5 says (3) The registration officer may require any householder or person owning or occupying any premises, or the agent of any such person, to give information required for the purpose of the registration officer’s functions under this Act. (4) Any person who without reasonable excuse fails to comply with a requirement under subsection (3), or gives false information in pursuance of such a requirement, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000. Thanks for that, John. This simply begs the question then, why does the Government not use its own legislation to ensure that registration is complied with? As to all the 'it's my right not to register/vote' brigade I would simply point out that the democratic freedom that you enjoy, and abuse, was hard fought and hard won by many people who were prepared to make any sacrifice to give you the freedom you are so quick to abuse. Freedom and democracy is not a right, it is a responsibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As to all the 'it's my right not to register/vote' brigade I would simply point out that the democratic freedom that you enjoy, and abuse, was hard fought and hard won by many people who were prepared to make any sacrifice to give you the freedom you are so quick to abuse. Freedom and democracy is not a right, it is a responsibility! Oh that just made me well up....where's my electoral registration card I feel compelled to fill it in. Dude you really are Mr Contradictory. Personally I feel that being compelled to appointing the tossers and no marks who popoulate our "Government" is an affront to all those who sacrificed themselves many years ago. I would rather take that standpoint over the lemming like approach that you condone any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Freedom and democracy is not a right, it is a responsibility! Though people are free to abstain if they so wish. MHKs do so themselves sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Thanks for that, John. This simply begs the question then, why does the Government not use its own legislation to ensure that registration is complied with? If you enforce registration, you run the risk of these very people actually using their vote to register their displeasure at you forcing them to comply. I know I would. I think you're muddying your own waters to be honest. You're preaching the rhetoric of someone who wants to compel people to actually vote. All the talk of democracy being something people fought for doesn't really apply when we're just talking about registering on a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barber Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 As to all the 'it's my right not to register/vote' brigade I would simply point out that the democratic freedom that you enjoy, and abuse, was hard fought and hard won by many people who were prepared to make any sacrifice to give you the freedom you are so quick to abuse. Freedom and democracy is not a right, it is a responsibility! Oh that just made me well up....where's my electoral registration card I feel compelled to fill it in. Dude you really are Mr Contradictory. Personally I feel that being compelled to appointing the tossers and no marks who popoulate our "Government" is an affront to all those who sacrificed themselves many years ago. I would rather take that standpoint over the lemming like approach that you condone any day. Perhaps, if you actually bothered to think about what you say, you may come up with something worth saying. Once again, I am simply stating you have a legal and civic duty (perhaps duty is a foreign concept to you) to be on the voters register. Whether or not you vote is your choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As to all the 'it's my right not to register/vote' brigade I would simply point out that the democratic freedom that you enjoy, and abuse, was hard fought and hard won by many people who were prepared to make any sacrifice to give you the freedom you are so quick to abuse. Freedom and democracy is not a right, it is a responsibility! Oh that just made me well up....where's my electoral registration card I feel compelled to fill it in. Dude you really are Mr Contradictory. Personally I feel that being compelled to appointing the tossers and no marks who popoulate our "Government" is an affront to all those who sacrificed themselves many years ago. I would rather take that standpoint over the lemming like approach that you condone any day. Perhaps, if you actually bothered to think about what you say, you may come up with something worth saying. Once again, I am simply stating you have a legal and civic duty (perhaps duty is a foreign concept to you) to be on the voters register. Whether or not you vote is your choice! Well we will have to disagree to disagree on that one then fella....I like the dig about my lack of duty....very inciteful...tit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We got a form at the work address too, again no one lives there. Simple answer really is to make all residents have an ID card - before the human right lobby whinges you already need proof of ID for banks, driving licence, bus pass etc. a single card which could incorporate all an individuals service access needs wouldn't be too hard to sort and how many people can genuinely say they haven't already got an identity card of some sort. (ie Student card, Bank card, Driving Licence, Passport, Bus Pass, Employment ID, NI card, any card with biometric or pin facilities linked to a database) Back to the point, no card = no dentist, doctor, housing, benefits, driving licence, work permit, voter registration, ability to hold a resident bank account, shoprite loyalty card etc. etc. Result a complete list of residents (not just those who didn't hide from the census), complete jury list, complete list of income tax customers, and more to the point an accurate and up to date count of how many people we already have, what infrastructure and service levels we have to resource now and in the future and, at last, the ability to say STOP 85,000 people is enough, no more imigration, and the justification to ask our politicians why they are avoiding making this long outstanding decision on population limits. Too late mate - if the govt actually applied all the law this sort of debate wouldn't be necesary for example Rating and Valuation Act 1953 section 69A Notification of change in occupier Any person who without reasonable excuse fails, within 28 days of the day on which he begins to be the occupier of a rated property, to notify the rating authority in writing of- (a) his name and address, and (b) the description of the property in question, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500. this is the law now - enforce it and every household is recorded. So why isn't it being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Thanks for that, John. This simply begs the question then, why does the Government not use its own legislation to ensure that registration is complied with? How would they know who to prosecute if they don't know who they are? Would they find the information from some other list that they claim not to be able to use? Who's to say that I didn't fill in my form and it must be lost in the post if they haven't received it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 [Too late mate - if the govt actually applied all the law this sort of debate wouldn't be necesary for example Rating and Valuation Act 1953 section 69A Notification of change in occupier Any person who without reasonable excuse fails, within 28 days of the day on which he begins to be the occupier of a rated property, to notify the rating authority in writing of- (a) his name and address, and (b) the description of the property in question, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500. this is the law now - enforce it and every household is recorded. So why isn't it being used. Advocates normally notify change of ownership for rates during sale and purchase process, but that only covers one name not all occupants, it does not cover tenants and their families in private or local authority housing The rights and responsibilities question is interesting. Assuming the right is to live in a democaracy and to be able to take part in that democracy by voting (or choosing not to) is the relevant countervaling reponsibility at least to register, whether you intend to vote or not Should voter lists and jury lists be compiled from the same data. How do you feel about 1. Your name age and address being available for sale publicly 2. Did you know you can opt out of that, how many of you have 3. Did you appreciate that not being on the electoral list can damage your credit rating 4. Should it be the responsibility of individuals or heads of households 5. What should cut off date be, should it be nomination day 6. Is 4 weeks long enough between nomination day and election day to deal with postal votes, takes 5 days minimum to get ballot papers printed. 7. Should we all be able to vote by post. What about electronically? 8. As it has been raised what feelings about a none of the above box on the ballot paper and what consequence if none of the above won. ie one less MHK for that constituency for next 5 years? or what? 9. HAVE YOU FILLED IN THE FORM THIS YEAR IN LAST 6 WEEKS? IF NOT WHY NOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barber Posted August 17, 2007 Author Share Posted August 17, 2007 As to all the 'it's my right not to register/vote' brigade I would simply point out that the democratic freedom that you enjoy, and abuse, was hard fought and hard won by many people who were prepared to make any sacrifice to give you the freedom you are so quick to abuse. Freedom and democracy is not a right, it is a responsibility! Oh that just made me well up....where's my electoral registration card I feel compelled to fill it in. Dude you really are Mr Contradictory. Personally I feel that being compelled to appointing the tossers and no marks who popoulate our "Government" is an affront to all those who sacrificed themselves many years ago. I would rather take that standpoint over the lemming like approach that you condone any day. Perhaps, if you actually bothered to think about what you say, you may come up with something worth saying. Once again, I am simply stating you have a legal and civic duty (perhaps duty is a foreign concept to you) to be on the voters register. Whether or not you vote is your choice! Well we will have to disagree to disagree on that one then fella....I like the dig about my lack of duty....very inciteful...tit. As you say, we will have to agree to disagree. I did think describing yourself as a 'tit' was a bit hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I like quizzes. How do you feel about 1. Your name age and address being available for sale publicly see no. 2 2. Did you know you can opt out of that, how many of you have yes - it's on the form I think? And yes I have 3. Did you appreciate that not being on the electoral list can damage your credit rating yes - this happened to me once when I was at uni - I was refused a mobile phone and the guy in the shop said it was probably because I wasn't on the roll 4. Should it be the responsibility of individuals or heads of households individuals 5. What should cut off date be, should it be nomination day Yes 6. Is 4 weeks long enough between nomination day and election day to deal with postal votes, takes 5 days minimum to get ballot papers printed. yes 7. Should we all be able to vote by post. What about electronically? both - yes if it's not open to abuse - see Scotland this year? 8. As it has been raised what feelings about a none of the above box on the ballot paper and what consequence if none of the above won. ie one less MHK for that constituency for next 5 years? or what? I like the sound of that! But more realistically re-open nominations? 9. HAVE YOU FILLED IN THE FORM THIS YEAR IN LAST 6 WEEKS? IF NOT WHY NOT? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Oh John Barber you are a one.....you should come here more often as my sides do like to split every once in a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.