Immigration

[Amadeus]

I appreciate your comments but if you'd read my thread carefully you would have seen the word FUTURE. I know exactly how th ehousing, work permit systems operate. The point I'm making is that a cheap labour source now will inevitably, as the new residents become residentially qualified, produce a much greater demand for housing in the future and reduce even more the ability of existing residents social housing needs which we aren't even meeting now.

 

Importing labour with higher skills will enable those immigrants to joint the housing market as they will be on better salaries. The trouble is the majority of immigrants presently appear to be in low paid service industries and will therefore have the biggets impact on the islands social housing.

 

Finally it won't be 10 years. I suspect strongly that this impact will start to be felt in the next 3-4 years and that young manx families will suffer.

Aren't you making the classic mistake of assuming that all immigrants will stay forever?

 

I think you will find that most, especially younger ones that are often found in the more unskilled and lower paid parts of the market, will only stay for a few years, save some money and leave again - you know, all the dreaded poles, south africans, etc. Not everyone will stay and take away your houses.

[Grianane]

To an extent maybe, but a great many seem to find themselves quite at home here and seek to try to start influencing island life, politics and culture to change it into something more like their home perhaps because their uncomfortable not being there, rather than accept the island for what it is.

 

The danger is that there aren't many places as nice as the Island, if there was these people would be there, and unfortunately the places they came from all suffer from similar malaise with rising crime, homelessness, yob behaviour and in some countries, especially in europe, very high unemployment and economic instability.

 

To my knowledge I know more people who came here to give it a go and have ended up staying permanently that have been and left.

 

The island is being diluted and unless it is stopped we will suffer

[mojomonkey]

The island is being diluted and unless it is stopped we will suffer

 

Are you Enoch Powell?

[Alias]

To an extent maybe, but a great many seem to find themselves quite at home here and seek to try to start influencing island life, politics and culture to change it into something more like their home perhaps because their uncomfortable not being there, rather than accept the island for what it is.

 

The danger is that there aren't many places as nice as the Island, if there was these people would be there, and unfortunately the places they came from all suffer from similar malaise with rising crime, homelessness, yob behaviour and in some countries, especially in europe, very high unemployment and economic instability.

 

To my knowledge I know more people who came here to give it a go and have ended up staying permanently that have been and left.

 

The island is being diluted and unless it is stopped we will suffer

So worse-off people carry diseases like 'economic instability'? Just because people come from a less economically successful (or politically stable country) doesn't mean that they have a tendency to cause stock market crashes and coups.

 

Sure, the island is being diluted.. but not having diversity has it's dangers too. Tighter measures would mean a declining population (which would quite severely impact your quality of life), the obvious smaller gene pool and ironically probably higher unemployment and an economic downturn.

 

Nothing lasts forever, culture is about coping with changes and otherwise is not much more than a novelty.

[Major Chip Hazzard]

Reading this, you get the impression that the Manx are the biggest racists on the planet. Don't forget there is no such thing as a true Manx person - they are products of 'comeovers' at some time or other. You would think that the world ended just beyond the horizon and the world is flat. The island always have had immigrants whether they are Vikings, Scots, Irish, from the north or south of England, Italians, Polish or whatever. It's what keeps the island going, otherwise the 'true' Manx would come extinct. The gene pool is only small here and needs fresh stocks every so often to keep the pool from becoming bad.

 

To survive, we have to embrace the immigrants (literally if you want). Control how many we get yes, but don't pull up the draw bridge completely. All the locals want to work in the high paid jobs, but who is going to clean the offices, clean the toilets, flip burgers? the jobs we don't want to do. We need somebody to do that, but as the locals don't want to do it, who do we have to employ ?

 

Before some wag comes on here to tell me there is a boat in the morning etc, my parents are from the big island, although I was born and brought up on the rock, and love the island as much as the next person. The difference is I don't have my head firmly stuck in the sand, and hope it will not happen.

 

Manx are not Manx, they are just a bunch of great great great grandchild of immigrants - deal with it !!

[sarahc]

And some of those Polish blokes are well tasty.

[mojomonkey]

And some of those Polish blokes are well tasty.

 

I just knew that this thread would turn sexist!!

[Grianane]

Reading this, you get the impression that the Manx are the biggest racists on the planet. Don't forget there is no such thing as a true Manx person - they are products of 'comeovers' at some time or other. You would think that the world ended just beyond the horizon and the world is flat. The island always have had immigrants whether they are Vikings, Scots, Irish, from the north or south of England, Italians, Polish or whatever. It's what keeps the island going, otherwise the 'true' Manx would come extinct. The gene pool is only small here and needs fresh stocks every so often to keep the pool from becoming bad.

 

To survive, we have to embrace the immigrants (literally if you want). Control how many we get yes, but don't pull up the draw bridge completely. All the locals want to work in the high paid jobs, but who is going to clean the offices, clean the toilets, flip burgers? the jobs we don't want to do. We need somebody to do that, but as the locals don't want to do it, who do we have to employ ?

 

Before some wag comes on here to tell me there is a boat in the morning etc, my parents are from the big island, although I was born and brought up on the rock, and love the island as much as the next person. The difference is I don't have my head firmly stuck in the sand, and hope it will not happen.

 

Manx are not Manx, they are just a bunch of great great great grandchild of immigrants - deal with it !!

 

 

There is another solution. Why not provide an adequate wage for people in service industries to sustain a lifestyle where they are able to achieve their aspirations such as home ownership. Why should the "manxies" get all the well paid jobs, what your suggesting is that the imported labour is in effect a slave market utilised to do jobs the resident population won't touch.

 

Again however my point continues to be that the imported labour in low paid jobs will need to be housed, educated, pensioned etc, and we are heading for an everincreasing cost to do that.

[Major Chip Hazzard]

]Again however my point continues to be that the imported labour in low paid jobs will need to be housed, educated, pensioned etc, and we are heading for an everincreasing cost to do that.

 

Simple, increase the taxes even further of the high earning 'Manxies' to pay for the housing and education requirements of the lower paid imported labour. They want higher wages, but also want all the luxuries to go with it, which have to be provided by the lower paid workers. To badly mis-quote a famous saying: "with higher wages and live style comes responsibility". That responsibility is to provide suitable accommodation (and dare say affordable), education and health care to those people who are in the low paid service industry.

 

The Manx government need to address the situation. You can 't have an island full of just high wage earners (Manx or not) without a service industry such as cleaners and burger flippers to provide a complete fully functional infrastructure.

 

Personally, I don't blame the Manx government, the real cause of the problem is the world's biggest and probably sneakiest master manipulators - Women ! Most want to sit at home, do nothing, yet demand that their men go out and work for more and more, so they can have bigger homes, a better 4x4 and holidays than her other female friends. This is what is driving up the economy - greedy women wanting more to look better. More means getting their men to work harder to for more money, which drives up house prices. It's a vicious circle, one woman can't be out done by the other so demands more. Daft husband works his nuts off to provide more...and his reward for this extra hard work putting him to an early grave? Yep, you have guested it, the ultimate carrot, a once weekly/monthly/or less (delete as appropriate) fumble under the duvet.

 

I better quickly clear space below for the barrage of replies from women who will argue that they are not - another mis-quote: women can fool most of the men most of the time, a few of the all of the time, but you can't fool all the men all of the time. A few of us can see past your masks ladies.

[CharlieB]

]Again however my point continues to be that the imported labour in low paid jobs will need to be housed, educated, pensioned etc, and we are heading for an everincreasing cost to do that.

 

Simple, increase the taxes even further of the high earning 'Manxies'

 

The Manx government need to address the situation.

 

Personally, I don't blame the Manx government,

 

Wow that's really big of you.... But I really should point out here that the correct term is the Isle of Man Government & it would seem you have something against us 'Manxies' tell me do you call Chinese people Ch!nkies by any chance?

 

Why is it when ever this subject is discussed it turns into a let's have a go at natives rant?

[Pragmatopian]

The island is being diluted.

 

Maybe it'll become a homeopathic remedy for something! But seriously, as a serial migrant myself I see it as an opportunity for both the migrant and the host country... at least until Daily Mail prejudices kick in and the populous becomes conditioned to fear and mistrust the migrants and the migrants become conditioned to fear and mistrust the 'indigenous' population.

 

Believe it or not we (whoever 'we' are) will always have something new to learn from other cultures. I personally feel extremely grateful every day for the opportunity to do so.

[manxman8180]

Again however my point continues to be that the imported labour in low paid jobs will need to be housed, educated, pensioned etc, and we are heading for an everincreasing cost to do that.

Which will be paid for by the ever increasing Govt pot raised by taxation on these 'immigrants'.

 

A bouyant economy is naturally allied with a migrant workforce.

 

As you are essentially accusing them of coming here because of the availibility of employment (relatively low paid or otherwise), then you should have no fear, because should the jobs dissappear, so will the imported labour.

 

A similar example - For the past few years China has taken many low skilled jobs from the 'Developed' world. However, indications are now that the wage demands in China are rising faster than most Western economies, precisley because of the shortage of labour (having already taken on vast quantities of labour intensive manual work). You can expect over the next 10 - 15 years, to see such industries starting to reappear further West.

 

Similarly, many of the migrant workers from Eastern europe work to send a proportion of thier money back to their families / homeland. As the economies of these countries starts to see the benefit from such indirect investment, so the demand for labour will increase and the 'tide' of immigration will ebb away.

 

People are too short sighted to see that these cycles have occurred for many years, particularly after major world events (war etc) as the labour requirements peak. Long may it go on if it continues to bring social diversity.

 

After all, it's a small world.

[jim]

I'm not racist, but that doesn't mean I want the population to continue growing without control, who decides when we're full? I personaly think we already are.

 

If we need more I'll welcome people, from anywere on the planet, but they should come thinking, what can I give, not what can I get, and to live how we do, not how they did.

 

while I'm at it, encourage cooperation, not competition, ban all religion (including football).

 

Bring in breeding licensing, issue licences only to those who will be good parents, sterilise those who wont. (do this at birth you can tell by their DNA)

 

If some one is violent lock them up for ever, they can't be cured. (that's 'cos of their DNA to).

 

 

and then we'll all live peacefull lives

[mojomonkey]

Bring in breeding licensing, issue licences only to those who will be good parents, sterilise those who wont. (do this at birth you can tell by their DNA)

 

Are you serious? That’s not too far removed from nazi philosophy.

[jim]

Bring in breeding licensing, issue licences only to those who will be good parents, sterilise those who wont. (do this at birth you can tell by their DNA)

 

Are you serious? That’s not too far removed from nazi philosophy.

 

 

I didn't say kill loads of people, but I do drive a vw "Kraft durch Freude"