Immigration

[VinnieK]

i've chosen to live here because of various reasons and i'm doing my best to contribute to local society. i speak english, socialize with locals, pay my taxes, spend my money here etc. but still i'm being called polish cunt and thrown bottles at. and not by scally looking kids that you may assume would be the first ones to go for it - no sir. most of the times they were well dressed gentlemen in their early thirties, maybe bit younger.

 

That's an absolute disgrace. We would be better off showing concern for the prejudices and vile attitudes that already exist in our society than spending time worrying about how immigration may change it.

 

The fact is that, despite lazy caricatures of immigrants as contributing little but more strain on the state, immigration carries a net economic benefit in the UK (and more than likely in the Isle of Man as well) - even Migrationwatch concedes this fact (although emphasising that it is a small benefit), and they can hardly be accused of anti-immigrant bias. The preservation of our culture has also been mentioned as an argument against immigration (one which automatically charicterizes immigrants as a potential threat to our "way of life"). To my mind this argument is so much hot air. Culture is not a finely wrought relic from the 19th century (or any other era we may care to select) to be cherished and protected against interference, but the continuously evolving manifestations of a populace expressing itself - something that is open to new influences, and indeed dependent upon them if it is not to degenerate into mere archaic curiosity.

 

All nations of the world have been forged in one way or another by immigration, and our cultures have often become all the richer for the migration of people and ideas from one place to another. We are universally the product of the mingling of cultures and to imagine that we somehow represent the last word or pinnacle of achievement of this process and thus qualified to exclude others on the basis that it may somehow taint or corrupt our culture is not just arrogant but verges on stupidity. On a more mundane level, immigrants are often a vital component of the economy and provide a valuable, if not crucial contribution of new blood to a domestic population that is on average growing older.

 

I truly hope that the kind of prejudice and abuse you've experienced here subsides, and that you've at least experienced some who live on the Island who have welcomed you. The actions of those who see fit to abuse and attack another human being on the basis of where they come from are an embarassment for the Island.

[finlo]

there's one on bucks road opposite bmw garage called taste of poland. robbinson's have polish food in stock too.

the thing is, that polish community in the isle of man is still very young and not consolidated. there's no polish capital to invest yet.

 

and this 8000 includes seasonal workers too. so its about half of that number that lives here..

 

 

 

 

Hi Mia.

[grant]

I'd like to think that no one will dissagree with you Vinnie.

[Gladys]

Said it before, but for the record, I welcome anyone, regardless of hue, creed or tongue, who will respect and love the island. I think it is also quite nice to hear different languages and see people of different countries here; it reminds you that the world is getting smaller and I often wonder how on earth somone from Krakow, say, has managed to find this tiny place.

 

Generally, I think most Manxies are very tolerant and accepting of 'comeovers' from wherever; they find them intriguing and interesting, BUT they do not like comeovers who decide that they know better than the Manx and set out to teach the locals.

 

All in all, I would venture to say that most genuine locals have a generosity of heart and a pride in their Island that they will welcome anyone who reciprocates those feelings. Thankfully, that pride has not descended into the mindless, beligerant 'Brits is Best' mentality of many of the thugs that inhabit elsewhere. It is a pride in our culture and Island, and knowing that everyone here whether born or comeover plays a part, but the whole is truly greater than the sum of its parts.

[Celt]

Nice post Gladys.

 

Along similar lines. I not talking about who is manx or nor or who is more Manx that others, just an observation.

 

I find it strange how alot off people who moved to the Island, especially the 70's and 80's, were then calling the Manx/Locals, lazy, stupid, interbred, backward and much much more but now these people have been here 20/30 years, they have kids who they want to be called/classed Manx and want to class themselves Manx as well. Double standards in my view.

 

These people were, and still are, welcomed here, given the oppertuinity to better themselves and brought into the local community. Yet they did and some still do, slagg the Locals off.

 

I've spoken to one Gentleman who has been here for 20 yrs, was born in Yorshire and ran his Company there. Retired here at 50, to get the best value for his money, his words not mine, now thinks he's Manx born and slates " Comeovers " off.

 

I've spoken to another so called Gentleman some years ago, who would never employ Manx people because he thought they were lazy, stupid and theives. He has since then gone Bankrupt twice and had to leave the Island, owning monies.

 

This type of thought still goes on imo, sad though that is. Just a few examples but i'm sure others have met people like that.

 

I find it ironic that many people on the Island work for Irish people, Scottish, English and so on. Most the major Finance Companies are owned by of Island Companies but they are still happy to take the " Comeovers" money whilst slate the same people off and anyone else who doesn't fit the bill.

 

I know off certain companies in the building trade who are now screaming like Banshees because they are losing work to " Comeovers " yet they themselves employed non Manx workers for years and payed them the least they could. And worked for non Island Companies doing Sub Contract. More Bullshit I think.

 

I personally couldn't care less where you come from, what religion you are or what colour.. I will meet and greet you as a friend, make my own mind up whether i like you as a person or not and then get on with my life. All the people who i've met from the EU have come here to work, not sit on their arse and wait for a house. So we must be doing something better than the UK.

 

One off the nicest things i've seen in years was to go to my sons xmas play and see the different cultures, races and religions now in our schools.

 

As for all these different things now coming to our Island. We we'll just do what we have for the last 2000 yrs or so. Adopt them into the local cultures and society which will makes us stronger.

 

Maybe the Island doing this for so long is lost on people now but it's not by the people who matter.

[smooks]

Whether your english,scottish,polish or wherever,your all immigrants to me.How ironic that some of the more vocal people on the island are immigrants themselves,usually southern english cunts

 

 

Precisely, it makes me sick to hear and read about English shit comeovers getting upset about immigration. What they really mean is they don't like coloured and eastern European people here. How ironic that they can't see that actually they are immigrants too.

 

hahahahaha

 

A comeover is an immigrant, full stop. Actually I don't mind the Asians and Eastern Europeans, they don't assume superiority but I really do hate the Brit comeovers and their offsprings. What say you Frank (sorry Frances) and Mervyn Miller etc.. Twats all of you.

[grant]

Whether your english,scottish,polish or wherever,your all immigrants to me.How ironic that some of the more vocal people on the island are immigrants themselves,usually southern english cunts

 

 

Precisely, it makes me sick to hear and read about English shit comeovers getting upset about immigration. What they really mean is they don't like coloured and eastern European people here. How ironic that they can't see that actually they are immigrants too.

 

hahahahaha

 

A comeover is an immigrant, full stop. Actually I don't mind the Asians and Eastern Europeans, they don't assume superiority but I really do hate the Brit comeovers and their offsprings. What say you Frank (sorry Frances) and Mervyn Miller etc.. Twats all of you.

 

What a very, very sad post.

[Cronky]

they do not like comeovers who decide that they know better than the Manx and set out to teach the locals

 

Precisely. The Isle of Man is a great place because of the Manx people and their friendly, laid back culture. People come here and want to be part of that. The simple worry is that the Isle of Man might be subject to the sheer weight of numbers that parts of the UK are experiencing. The friendly culture might then change to someting more metropolitian. Jersey lost control of this situation and have ended up with something more akin to a medium sized UK town.

 

I do not think it will happen here due to the work permit system.

[ans]

Precisely, it makes me sick to hear and read about English shit comeovers getting upset about immigration. What they really mean is they don't like coloured and eastern European people here. How ironic that they can't see that actually they are immigrants too.

 

A comeover is an immigrant, full stop. Actually I don't mind the Asians and Eastern Europeans, they don't assume superiority but I really do hate the Brit comeovers and their offsprings. What say you Frank (sorry Frances) and Mervyn Miller etc.. Twats all of you.

 

And how ironic that you're just as bad as the people you profess to hate. You're an embarrassment. Stop posting.

[Mr. Sausages]

I'm not racist, but I've noticed that some of these foreign birds that are about have really nice eyes. Which is surely all that matters.

[Albert Tatlock]

Said it before, but for the record, I welcome anyone, regardless of hue, creed or tongue, who will respect and love the island. I think it is also quite nice to hear different languages and see people of different countries here; it reminds you that the world is getting smaller and I often wonder how on earth somone from Krakow, say, has managed to find this tiny place.

 

Generally, I think most Manxies are very tolerant and accepting of 'comeovers' from wherever; they find them intriguing and interesting, BUT they do not like comeovers who decide that they know better than the Manx and set out to teach the locals.

 

All in all, I would venture to say that most genuine locals have a generosity of heart and a pride in their Island that they will welcome anyone who reciprocates those feelings. Thankfully, that pride has not descended into the mindless, beligerant 'Brits is Best' mentality of many of the thugs that inhabit elsewhere. It is a pride in our culture and Island, and knowing that everyone here whether born or comeover plays a part, but the whole is truly greater than the sum of its parts.

I would agree with that. Though I have spoken to a couple of locals with first hand experience of being 'let go' from the new prison build in favour of cheaper labour from Poland - who would not I suspect.

[Celt]

Though I have spoken to a couple of locals with first hand experience of being 'let go' from the new prison build in favour of cheaper labour from Poland - who would not I suspect.

 

I can see where you're coming from Albert but i'm off an age were i can remember the building trade before the mass Sub Contract culture.

 

The age were most large firms paid people off just before xmas every year. Just so they wouldn't have to pay Holiday Pay and not be able to claim the monies back, via the stamp scheme, untill Easter. Cash flow with people losing out, imo.

 

None of which was any help to the poor guy out off work.

 

So that type of thing in the Island is hardly new. It's like the Spanish teaching the Native Americans how to take scalps.

[Max Power]

I have nothing against immigration providing that the immigrants are willing to intigrate and share in the culture of the country. Not to impose their own culture, beliefs or observe laws and justice which are alien to to the land they have chosen to live.

 

Perhaps on the Isle of Man, something like compulsory active involvement in the TT or MGP, the Parish Walk or whatever for 5 years to soak up the essence of what the island is about and to socialise with local people?

[VinnieK]

I have nothing against immigration providing that the immigrants are willing to intigrate and share in the culture of the country. Not to impose their own culture, beliefs

 

This has been mentioned a couple of times now, and I'm still not sure what is exactly meant by "impose their own culture". Surely culture is either adopted or rejected by a host nation, it can't be imposed upon it other than by force.

 

Perhaps on the Isle of Man, something like compulsory active involvement in the TT or MGP, the Parish Walk or whatever for 5 years to soak up the essence of what the island is about and to socialise with local people?

 

Well that assumes that the essence of the Isle of Man is embodied by the TT and the Parish Walk, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of compelling someone to work for a given organization (especially for 5 years!) - since they will be working and living amongst locals anyway, surely this compulsion would be redundant anyway.

 

Personally, I think people worry far too much about the integration of immigrants. Immigration is as old as civilization itself, and in each case cultural assimilation has taken place naturally. One thing that should be born in mind is that such a process usually takes generations: it's not something that can be accelerated by setting up committees or naturalization workshops for new arrivals: First, second, and even third generation immigrants will always have a sense of identity that owes a great deal to their own culture (often the number of generations it takes is dependent on how different the two cultures are to begin with), and I think it's unrealistic to expect it to be any other way and unreasonable to chastise immigrants themselves for this. Also, it's important to remember that it's possible for a host nation to incorporate pockets of different cultures without relinquishing or dramatically changing its own - Manhattan, for instance, is home to Chinatown and Little Italy, but the city itself is unmistakably North American in character and, for want of a better word, "culture".

[Max Power]

I have nothing against immigration providing that the immigrants are willing to intigrate and share in the culture of the country. Not to impose their own culture, beliefs

 

This has been mentioned a couple of times now, and I'm still not sure what is exactly meant by "impose their own culture". Surely culture is either adopted or rejected by a host nation, it can't be imposed upon it other than by force.

 

Perhaps on the Isle of Man, something like compulsory active involvement in the TT or MGP, the Parish Walk or whatever for 5 years to soak up the essence of what the island is about and to socialise with local people?

 

Well that assumes that the essence of the Isle of Man is embodied by the TT and the Parish Walk, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of compelling someone to work for a given organization (especially for 5 years!) - since they will be working and living amongst locals anyway, surely this compulsion would be redundant anyway.

 

Personally, I think people worry far too much about the integration of immigrants. Immigration is as old as civilization itself, and in each case cultural assimilation has taken place naturally. One thing that should be born in mind is that such a process usually takes generations: it's not something that can be accelerated by setting up committees or naturalization workshops for new arrivals: First, second, and even third generation immigrants will always have a sense of identity that owes a great deal to their own culture (often the number of generations it takes is dependent on how different the two cultures are to begin with), and I think it's unrealistic to expect it to be any other way and unreasonable to chastise immigrants themselves for this. Also, it's important to remember that it's possible for a host nation to incorporate pockets of different cultures without relinquishing or dramatically changing its own - Manhattan, for instance, is home to Chinatown and Little Italy, but the city itself is unmistakably North American in character and, for want of a better word, "culture".

 

Well, believe it or not there are groups immigrants who live together in huge areas of their host country along with descendants of people from the same culture who refuse to accept any other law or culture than their own. They denounce the nationality of their host or birth country and try to change it's laws, place names and areas to their own!

 

On the other hand there are people who genuinely want to live here for their own reasons and many of them from the groups I have mentioned. I use the TT as an example because it is a community run event and very sociable. An understanding and appreciation of both sides can be gained.