Frances Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 it may well be instructive to look at Manx emmigrants to Ohio from 1825 - Kinvig visiting in 1950's describes http://www.manxnotebook.com/iomnhas/v054p436.htm the retention of Manx in late 19th C as .. This characteristic gave the Manx the reputation originally of being a ‘somewhat clannish body of immigrants’, much in the same way as various groups of European colonists have been regarded in more recent years; indeed in certain instances, particularly in north-eastern Ohio, the Manx have preserved an unmixed descent to the present day, when the sixth generation has been reached. You can see this when you look at US genealogies (in fact many went back to the Island to obtain wives!) - the real mixing came about post WW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I have nothing against immigration providing that the immigrants are willing to intigrate and share in the culture of the country. Not to impose their own culture, beliefs This has been mentioned a couple of times now, and I'm still not sure what is exactly meant by "impose their own culture". Surely culture is either adopted or rejected by a host nation, it can't be imposed upon it other than by force. Not too sure about culture, but get a group of "when I's" together and they'll usually start telling you what's wrong with the IOM and how it should be run. Oddly enough, it's usually the same way as the place they just chose to leave. Somehow they seem to come to the IOM because it's different, but end up wanting it to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 the Manx the reputation originally of being a ‘somewhat clannish body of immigrants’........the Manx have preserved an unmixed descent to the present day, when the sixth generation has been reached. I wonder if Ohio has a "Manx Town" where people go for a kipper, or spuds and herring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 herring are not native to Lake Erie (and the Kipper was invented after the initial settlers went) but salted herring no doubt made their way there - there were very strong links back with the Island (eg the support of the Manx music festival, the various photos of the Mona AFC (soccer) of Ohio in the 1920's press etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I wonder if Ohio has a "Manx Town" where people go for a kipper, or spuds and herring? As someone who has many Relatives in the Cleveland and Michigan areas, i can assure you whole heartedly that there is still a very strong and large, " Manx ", commuinity there. When i'm there visiting i'm always asked to get up and speak about things, " Back Home " and have even met people learning the Gaelic. And yes, some do eat Kippers and when they can get the Herring, (salted, pity as it's crap for rollmops ), spuds and herrin too. My last visit was the begining on the year and i make the journey every other year. There's a big park there called Clague Park which was left to the State as the man had no kids. He came from Lonan but is not part of the Ballavarran family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Well, believe it or not there are groups immigrants who live together in huge areas of their host country along with descendants of people from the same culture who refuse to accept any other law or culture than their own. They denounce the nationality of their host or birth country and try to change it's laws, place names and areas to their own! That's quite a complicated issue, though. It can be debated how much this is phenomena is due to the natural inclinations of those who've immigrated, and how much of it comes as a result from banding together through experiencing prejudice and/or being excluded from society in some way or another. Also, thanls for specifying what you meant, but I'm still not convinced with the whole accepting/embracing culture criteria for judging potential immigrants. 1. there are groups immigrants who live together in huge areas of their host country along with descendants of people from the same culture Surely this is understandable though. It's natural for immigrants to band together, simply because they understand one another's needs and motives for moving, as well as the difficulties of life in a new (not necessarily welcoming) country. Moving to a foreign country is undoubtably a stressful and worrying experience, so it's not unusual that those who choose to do so desire to live in close proximity to others who are in the same boat. Also, as Jakub Stachura's post testifies, immigrants are sometimes met with hostility and abuse, so it's understandable if they choose to establish themselves in communities that have a bit of familiarity rather than just go it alone and hope for the best. This grouping together has always been a feature of immigration and isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. The problem is often that many immigrants often end up living in poorer neighbourhoods with terrible schools and little opportunity for advancement (which is sometimes exacerbated by prejudice of the host population) which invariably leads to social stagnation instead of the kind of dispersion (which leads to greater assimilation) that results from normal levels of social mobility. 2. ...refuse to accept any other law or culture than their own. The law doesn't ask to be accepted, it insists that people adhere to it. If people choose not to, be they immigrants or local (and there are plenty of locals who break the law - are they also guilty of refusing to accept the local custom and tradition?) then they should be punished. As for culture, well the use of the term is again vague: If they choose to worship the religion they were brought up with, or if they prefer to watch films or read literature in their native language, it's no business of ours, and I don't see how it would be a threat to our culture. If on the other hand they choose to indulge in cultural practices that run contrary to the law, then again they should be punished in the same way as anyone else who breaks the law. 3. They denounce the nationality of their host or birth country and try to change it's laws, place names and areas to their own! Every citizen is allowed to try to some extent change laws (through their choice of who they vote to represent them in Government), just as they are entitled to try and preserve laws by the same means. We should always be concerned about groups lobbying for what we believe to be bad laws to be passed, but this applies to the entire populace in general, not just to immigrants, and is thus more of a constitutional concern than one relating to the issue of immigration (specifically, whether or not we should have a constitution that guarantees certain rights and forbids certain laws from being passed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakub_stachura Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 it's really nice to see that most of you doesn't mind foreigners. And it's really embarresing to see many pole's attidude towards this place and people... oh yeah! is there any local live chatroom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC-Drift.com Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 oh yeah! is there any local live chatroom? http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?autocom=chatpara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 And it's really embarresing to see many pole's attidude towards this place and people... What do you mean by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 And it's really embarresing to see many pole's attidude towards this place and people... What do you mean by that? What indeed. Anyone with an attitude can get the next boat - I'm sure they'd be a lot happier in their homeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 And it's really embarrassing to see many pole's attitude towards this place and people... I would imagine that he means the bitterness and anger shown be a few is remembered more than the welcome and kindness shown by the many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 And it's really embarrassing to see many pole's attitude towards this place and people... What indeed. Anyone with an attitude can get the next boat - I'm sure they'd be a lot happier in their homeland. I would imagine that he means the bitterness and anger shown be a few is remembered more than the welcome and kindness shown by the many. Surely he means that as a Pole he is embarrassed by the attitude of some of his fellow Poles towards the Manx and the IOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 Maybe as a pole he doesn't fully understand the nuances of the language used here and is unable without additional education (which we pay for) to express himself adequately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I understood him, but perhaps you could join him in these "paid for" classes to brush up on your own grammar and punctuation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Maybe as a pole he doesn't fully understand the nuances of the language used here and is unable without additional education (which we pay for) to express himself adequately He seems able to express himself perfectly well... it's really nice to see that most of you doesn't mind foreigners. And it's really embarresing to see many pole's attidude towards this place and people... oh yeah! is there any local live chatroom? ... apart from the lack of caps (which not everyone uses on the 'net) there's only two spelling mistakes, one may be a typo. It's better and clearer that some of the posts you see on here. Is it possible that you and Celt initially got the wrong end of the stick re his posting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.