The Old Git Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 But it has come to my attention that 'police' (I don't think) will never help make the roads safer. I have lost over 6 mates over here on these roads and it makles me sick to hear that police are still saying how it's another example of a tragic event! When will something be done about it?? How about raising the minimum driving age to 21 and having a blanket 60 mph max limit? Would that satisfy you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 When will something be done about it?? any suggestions - remember most are killed on the TT course (in particular the mountain road but also the Ballacraine to Ramsey section) and that you cannot do anything to reduce its suitability as a racetrack. As I and others have pointed out many times the Island death rate is around twice that of the UK and much more than other Islands (eg Wight) which have similar roads - motorcycles have some 40x the fatality rate per mile travelled compared to cars but many of the bad crashes are caused by speeding motorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 How about raising the minimum driving age to 21 and having a blanket 60 mph max limit? Would that satisfy you? Don't like the first option, But a 60mph limits seems to be getting more favorable every year......., If you can't stop people driving like idiots, Then at least minimise the impact speed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 When will something be done about it?? any suggestions - remember most are killed on the TT course (in particular the mountain road but also the Ballacraine to Ramsey section) and that you cannot do anything to reduce its suitability as a racetrack. As I and others have pointed out many times the Island death rate is around twice that of the UK and much more than other Islands (eg Wight) which have similar roads - motorcycles have some 40x the fatality rate per mile travelled compared to cars but many of the bad crashes are caused by speeding motorists. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that road accidents and fatalities in particular had fallen dramatically over the past few years? This unfortunate accident has happened on a single track straight road which was quiet at the time. I don't think that in the circumstances as told to me that there is much that anyone could have done to influence the actual events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I know nothing about this latest incident other than which I read here -if it is the straight road past the plantation then it is usually completely empty of traffic but I've never driven it at 2am! (the Mines road & main foxdale road is generally more appealing at night unless you are rallying) - you may be right re some reduction as there has been a significant increase both in awareness classes for youngsters and also those large yellow notices giving accident statistics for the next stretch. Speed limits have also been imposed on many more roads (eg the still dodgy Ballamodha straight) but the various cross-roads Ballacraine to Kk Michael need something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I know nothing about this latest incident other than which I read here -if it is the straight road past the plantation then it is usually completely empty of traffic but I've never driven it at 2am! (the Mines road & main foxdale road is generally more appealing at night unless you are rallying) - you may be right re some reduction as there has been a significant increase both in awareness classes for youngsters and also those large yellow notices giving accident statistics for the next stretch. Speed limits have also been imposed on many more roads (eg the still dodgy Ballamodha straight) but the various cross-roads Ballacraine to Kk Michael need something I may be wrong on the actual location on the road, it may have been towards the Hope, but those roads are unlikely to be changed much in any case. The volume of traffic wouldn't justify it I suppose. Yes, I agree, some of these junctions need better visibility for drivers approaching and others trying to pull out. Similarly, some driveways are totally blind and don't allow for any margin of error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I knew Oatsie very well and this is a terrible tradgy, he was an amazing guy and i'll never forget him. But it has come to my attention that 'police' (I don't think) will never help make the roads safer. I have lost over 6 mates over here on these roads and it makles me sick to hear that police are still saying how it's another example of a tragic event! When will something be done about it?? Rest In Peace Oatsie the police are working with the younger driver to make them more aware as lots of youngster have been in fatal accidents. doing crash roadshows around the island, also post on the local car enthuriasts forum (xlr8.co.im) and have organised an event at the grandstand a few mths back in association with Ace Cafe London. also the undercover cars are our out to hopefully make our roads safer by catching ppl out on mobile phones, no seat belts and speeding. I dont know the ins and out of the accident but i feel the whole police thing should be on a different thread. Its so sad that he lost his life at such a young age.......my heart is with the family and friends at this sad time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 How about raising the minimum driving age to 21 and having a blanket 60 mph max limit? Would that satisfy you? Don't like the first option, But a 60mph limits seems to be getting more favorable every year......., If you can't stop people driving like idiots, Then at least minimise the impact speed... I don't particularly want or advocate either option myself, but insurance statistics will show that young male drivers are the biggest risk group I'm just wondering what the poster with the "hot hatch" avatar and 6 dead friends expect the police to do. If you drive within the law and within your own abilities then you should be fairly safe on our roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 How about raising the minimum driving age to 21 and having a blanket 60 mph max limit? Would that satisfy you? Don't like the first option, But a 60mph limits seems to be getting more favorable every year......., If you can't stop people driving like idiots, Then at least minimise the impact speed... I don't particularly want or advocate either option myself, but insurance statistics will show that young male drivers are the biggest risk group I'm just wondering what the poster with the "hot hatch" avatar and 6 dead friends expect the police to do. If you drive within the law and within your own abilities then you should be fairly safe on our roads. I totally agree, the police are there to enforce the law and advise us. The responsibility for safe driving/riding lies with each individual. Driving to match the conditions and the type of road usually ensures safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointer Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 When will something be done about it?? any suggestions - remember most are killed on the TT course (in particular the mountain road but also the Ballacraine to Ramsey section) and that you cannot do anything to reduce its suitability as a racetrack. As I and others have pointed out many times the Island death rate is around twice that of the UK and much more than other Islands (eg Wight) which have similar roads - motorcycles have some 40x the fatality rate per mile travelled compared to cars but many of the bad crashes are caused by speeding motorists. Are you using a young boy's death to push your own views on a speed limit frances? How very sick. Not out of character for law-pushers though. This was a joyride anyway, speed limits don't stop them. I knew the lad, I'm not having a go, it was fairly out of character, but a joyride none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 no I wasn't trying to use his death at all - please read my posts I made no ref to that accident and stated in one that I knew nothing about it - I assume the questioner's 6 friends did not die in joy-rides but on open roads - I pointed out a fact that was even acknowledged in the DOT comment on the Braddan roundabouts that anything that was done to the road system should not affect its suitability as a racetrack. My own opinion on speed limits is that they are generally ineffective unless strongly policed and as the Manx police force show little sign of being serious about this, my own push is for physical measures that would be taken in any other jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Not having a go at Frances, but are there any statistics to support the view that the TT course is the main stretch where non-TT deaths occur on Island roads? Also, I am a bit dubious about linking the fact that the mountain road is also part of the TT course to making it more susceptible to serious injury. It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, surely, as it must be one of the most used roads on the Island seeing as it is the quickest (shortest) route between Douglas and the north. Its appeal for fast driving may also arise from the lack of a hedge on one side along the whole distance, making it feel open and so vision (not necessarily of what is round the next bend, but you can seen for some distance if something is going to be coming towards you) is improved, and it is along a relatively level plane. Not much can be done about those aspects, unless you want to re-build to whole topography. I remember from my time in Sheffield that a mountain route from Yorkshire into Lancashire (Snake Pass) was notorious for the amount of serious crashes, probably for the same reasons. That was not on a racing track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 look at the fatal crash map published by the DOT as part of the speed limit campaign - I've made ref to it before but only have my own downloaded pdf file but it should still be somewhere on the gov website - I've driven the Snake pass a few times (my brother used it extensively and hated it) it is considerably more winding than sections of the Mountain road and carries much heavier traffic (especially commercial) , I guess many of the accidents are caused by frustration at not being able to overtake. Though I'm no believer in unenforced speed limits anywhere else in Europe the road would be limited be between 50 and 60mph (UK, French, Dutch etc standard speeds) - in many such places I seen surface modulation used to make it uncomfortable to travel at over say 35mph - usually judiciously applied to enforce speeds around dodgy bits but obviously not possible if road is also to be used as a race track. Re joyrides - nothing will prevent these apart from education (and possibly newer forms of ignition keys) - this must be the third such fatality in as many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 There was some talk in the UK to limit new/young drivers to a max of one passenger in the car, (it may have said after a certain time of night) now I don't think this is such a bad idea, it could be fairly easily policed and lets be right, it's easy to get egged on with a load of mates in your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumble Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 This is no time or place to speculate on the cause of this sad accident, and it's certainly inappropriate to blame the police, who again have had the terrible job of dealing with its aftermath. Our thoughts should be with the family, whilst allowing the due process of the law to run its course. Then we'll know who or what was to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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