WTF Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Mr Wright can probably explain this better but I'd always understood that it comes down to the innocence until proven guilty thing. Unless a client tells his advocate that they are guilty they have to assume that they are innocent regardless of what they personally make of the evidence. It is the courts that are making the judgement not the participants. Obviously there will be occasions where guilt will be apparent but it is largely a case of conscience. if lawyers had conciences they would not get evidence against their clients excluded on technicallities. your warrent didn't allow you to look their so you shouldn't have found the gun that killed the victim. lawyers know that the drivel their spouting is pure bollox in the hope of getting their client off. if he's rich then they probably will. did you drop this brown envelope mr jury person?? oh look its full of money, it must be yours. not guilty m'lud. we believe the defense, the CCTV footage was fake and the bus load of eye witnesses are all lying cos my clients a rich twat. justice done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 The suspended sentence is going to follow her for the rest of her life. Even little things like security checks at airports and making reservations at hotels will raise extra questions. I've never had a problem, not once, and have travelled all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 On a totally unrelated topic, what's the sentence for kicking a seagull nowadays? And would it be a suspended sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Speaking of shocking sentences... it is "get off" and "let off" not "get of" and "let of". And when you write "could of" "would of" or "should of" you mean "could've", "would've" or "should've" (it is short for "could have" etc). Sorry to be pedantic, I don't really mind spelling errors but these really disrupt the flow of a post, and they're turning up throughout this thread so it is a good opportunity to make the point without singling out any one individual. Other than that, and I don't often say this, but I agree with Mr Tatlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It is the courts that are making the judgement not the participants. Yes, but that 'judgement' is only based on those participants who are presenting highfalutin obfuscation and wear those wiggy things ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ ££££ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 It is the courts that are making the judgement not the participants. Yes, but that 'judgement' is only based on those participants who are presenting highfalutin obfuscation and wear those wiggy things ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ ££££ Ok, I give up. Its all one big conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Read of all this thread over the past day or two with the developing arguments for and against the lass and, hate to say it, as it smacks of apathy, but I really do not care. She smacked someone over the head who, from all accounts, deserved it; the boyfriend probably squared up to this chap (gallantly, no doubt) and got a hiding for his troubles (miscalculating the fire power, or support, he had) and the lad who started the whole thing was probably no braver trying to hit on a pretty girl than when he was surrounded by his mates. So what do you get? A brawl with someone taking decisive action in the middle and we end up with a cause celebre? Brawling is what some lads do; wouldn't it be better if the brawlers shook from fear of going home to Mum and explaining how they got the ripped clothes and blood stains? In truth, it all seems a bit petty to me and the fact this has hit the courts is another example of the state taking the responsibility away from the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 In truth, it all seems a bit petty to me and the fact this has hit the courts is another example of the state taking the responsibility away from the individual. For a moment there I read that as you suggesting that someone smashing a glass bottle over someone elses head should not be a criminal offence punishable by a court.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...don/6988103.stm Yeah, you're right. It's pretty petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 It is the courts that are making the judgement not the participants. Yes, but that 'judgement' is only based on those participants who are presenting highfalutin obfuscation and wear those wiggy things ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ ££££ Ok, I give up. Its all one big conspiracy. The court makes a judgment on the evidence presented. So for example, if an advocate has very persuasive oratory powers and has a high standing and reputation with the judge, then his/her 'side of the story' (regardless of truthfulness and accuracy) will be taken over a less skillful advocate's version of events. No conspiracy. It is the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Is that why thesame advocates seem to feature defending no hopers, do some of them make a career out of hopeless cases. Is there a league table for successful defences which I can use to chose my Advocate if I ever need one. Why don't they have performance related pay................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 On a side issue. Why aren't these places subject to a compulsory shut down for a fixed period after 'western style brawls.' Might encourage the owners/breweries to adopt a different attitude to their patrons, staff and the general public if they get hit in the pocket. At the moment it seems to be a sell as much as you can and take the money attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 On a side issue. Why aren't these places subject to a compulsory shut down for a fixed period after 'western style brawls.' Might encourage the owners/breweries to adopt a different attitude to their patrons, staff and the general public if they get hit in the pocket. At the moment it seems to be a sell as much as you can and take the money attitude. The law already covers landlords and staff...and what action they need to take. IMO, you shouldn't penalise all concerned just because you get a visit from the local chavs who then kick off. Cases like this should involve a one-way-conversation, and then the police - and shouldn't get to a brawl stage. These 'customers' need to be made an example of to re-enforce that and back up the landlord and staffs' authority under existing law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Yet trouble still happens time after time. So somethings not right. And somethings not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Yet trouble still happens time after time. So somethings not right. And somethings not working. It'll happen less if they are made an example of and locked up for 'disobeying the landlord' (as he has the right to insist people leave). Big headline in Examiner '6 months underestimating the authority of a landlord/staff' should do it. The police are usually pretty good/fast in responding when called on by a landlord/staff. Better training for landlords and staff wouldn't go amiss either though - such courses could be run periodically by the police (only has to be an hour or so). The staff get little training - most of them tend to be transients - and an occasional visit from the police with a poster reminding staff of their responsibilities and rights wouldn't go amiss (happy to be corrected if this is happening recently - though it hasn't been in my experience in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grianane Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Yet trouble still happens time after time. So somethings not right. And somethings not working. It'll happen less if they are made an example of and locked up for 'disobeying the landlord' (as he has the right to insist people leave). Big headline in Examiner '6 months underestimating the authority of a landlord/staff' should do it. The police are usually pretty good/fast in responding when called on by a landlord/staff. Better training for landlords and staff wouldn't go amiss either though - such courses could be run periodically by the police (only has to be an hour or so). The staff get little training - most of them tend to be transients - and an occasional visit from the police with a poster reminding staff of their responsibilities and rights wouldn't go amiss (happy to be corrected if this is happening recently - though it hasn't been in my experience in the past). The headline would be a big start, better also to train landlords and staff to think carefully about how much they serve to people who are sometimes very much the worse for wear. Like it or not most of the chavs who kick of in pubs and clubs have been granted admission to and have been served in a licenced premise, thereby being assisted in their decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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