Unelectable?

[Lonan3]

Have the Lib Dems put dogma above votes, or have they simply put fantasy ahead of reality?

"In the countryside, a green Britain will mean clear streams, rich topsoil for growing vegetables and fruit, lusher grassland. In cities, it will mean Paris-style 'borrow-a-bike' schemes, public transport that works. Breathe deep in our parks because the air will be fresh and not reeking of diesel and petrol fumes. Homes will be warm by design, not by burning fossil fuels." It's quite a vision isn't it? But how many of the UK's (approx) 40Million motorists are likely to say "Yes! I'll vote for that?"

 

LINK TO STORY

 

Far-reaching proposals to transform Britain into a carbon-neutral economy within 40 years won overwhelming backing from the Liberal Democrat rank and file yesterday. Delegates at the party's annual conference in Brighton approved a series of measures, including plans to remove petrol-driven cars from the roads by 2040, invest billions in the railways and pour resources into renewable power to give Britain a network of non-carbon emitting electricity generators.

 

Mr Huhne said the party planned a sharp increase in vehicle excise duty on "gas-guzzling" cars, before an eventual ban on petrol-powered vehicles. "The EU Commission wants to set limits on car emissions but it should state clearly that no car can be sold in the EU if it still belches carbon by 2040," he added. "It can be electric. It can be fuelled by a hydrogen cell, but we have to get tough with car makers about emissions."

[Pragmatopian]

At present rates of consumption, we will have very little fossil fuel left by 2040 that can be extracted cost effectively anyway, so we should start moving to alternatives before time runs out. I'm quite happy to see the feckers who drive large and inefficient vehicles taxed to within an inch of their lives.

[Mike]

Its something I'd sign up for as well, go for the companies and make it commercially viable to produce zero emmisions and hammer the ones that stand in the way, rather than the US model of lying down & letting the SUVs & hummers drive right over

[Cambon]

Its something I'd sign up for as well, go for the companies and make it commercially viable to produce zero emmisions and hammer the ones that stand in the way, rather than the US model of lying down & letting the SUVs & hummers drive right over

 

Interesting idea, but where are our electric buses, trains and ships? The average double decker bus uses a 12 litre diesel engine and gets much worse MPG than a Hummer etc. Apart from the ones I see doing school and rush hour runs the rest seem to have just a handful of people on, which means that not using public transport (at the moment) seems to be better for ecology.

[bluemonday]

I'll vote for them if they promise to make the sun shine all day everyday...................

[Pat Ayres]

I'd vote for them if they could squeeze a 12ltr lump into a bus!

That would be really worth taking for a spin.

[cheeky boy]

At present rates of consumption, we will have very little fossil fuel left by 2040 that can be extracted cost effectively anyway, so we should start moving to alternatives before time runs out. I'm quite happy to see the feckers who drive large and inefficient vehicles taxed to within an inch of their lives.

 

 

Another fool falling for the ban 4x4 argument

 

If you want to cut down on hydrocarbon consumption then tax the fuel not the vehicle, a lightly used Shogun will consume less fuel annually than a high miler Focus

 

We should also consider the total energy cost, e.g. the energy used to construct the vehicle and how long the vehicle lasts before it needs to be replaced

 

A Toyota Hi Lux 4x4 will take slightly more energy to build than a Citroen hatchback but will still be going years after the small car's demise and replacement

 

Punitive taxing of 4x4s is just another way of paying for idle civil servants and daft road work schemes.

 

It will do bugger all to halt global warming, China is building a new coal-fired power station every week

[grant]

I'd vote for them if they could squeeze a 12ltr lump into a bus!

That would be really worth taking for a spin.

 

Hey skrappey, you're right, most bus's are 5 to 7 litre, however, there's plenty of coaches with 12 ltr engines, some Nissans have 12500cc and some Hinos have 13260cc!

[Pragmatopian]

At present rates of consumption, we will have very little fossil fuel left by 2040 that can be extracted cost effectively anyway, so we should start moving to alternatives before time runs out. I'm quite happy to see the feckers who drive large and inefficient vehicles taxed to within an inch of their lives.

 

 

Another fool falling for the ban 4x4 argument

 

If you want to cut down on hydrocarbon consumption then tax the fuel not the vehicle, a lightly used Shogun will consume less fuel annually than a high miler Focus

 

We should also consider the total energy cost, e.g. the energy used to construct the vehicle and how long the vehicle lasts before it needs to be replaced

 

A Toyota Hi Lux 4x4 will take slightly more energy to build than a Citroen hatchback but will still be going years after the small car's demise and replacement

 

Punitive taxing of 4x4s is just another way of paying for idle civil servants and daft road work schemes.

 

It will do bugger all to halt global warming, China is building a new coal-fired power station every week

 

Some fair points on the fully loaded energy cost of vehicles, but there's no denying fuel consumption for someone driving a few kids to and from school on public roads would be much higher on a Land Rover than in a Ford Focus. A higher tax on vehicles based on fuel consumption increases the disincentive for people to waste energy.

[Karellen]

At present rates of consumption, we will have very little fossil fuel left by 2040

 

As a nipper in the 1960's I remember hearing stories about how the world's supply of oil would run out by the year 2000. This frightened me - "by the time I'm 35 there will be no more cars" I thought.

 

And here we are, the known reserves of oil have never been higher and technological improvements have led to reserves previously thought uneconomic now being extracted. A good example of this is the Alberta oil sands which gives Canada the world's second-largest oil reserve after Saudi. As discovery and extraction technology develops, so the world's available oil reserves increase.

 

Of course it will run out at some point in time, but 2040? - I dont think so.

 

One thing puzzles me about these electric / hydrogen cars - how is the fuel produced in the first instant? Not from oil, gas or coal fired power stations perhaps?

[Tempus Fugit]

a lot of the yank trucks are like this guy (who runs a mobile webcam complete with cat !)

 

Engine Type: Detroit Diesel Series 60

Number Of Cylinders: 6 inline 24 valve

Air System: Turbocharged Air To Air Charge Cooling

Displacement: 778 cubic inches (12.7 liter)

Compression Ratio: 17.25:1

Horsepower: 500 @ 1800 RPM

Torque: 1650 LB-FT @ 1200 RPM

Weight: 2,640 lbs (1,199 kg)

Fuel Mileage: 4 - 7 mpg depending on load and speed

Rev Limited Speed: 92 miles per hour @ 2100 RPM

Fuel Capacity: 240 gallons

Oil Capacity: 9.5 gallons