[BBC News] Schoolgirl hit by van on crossing

[manxman8180]

.........if you drove well below the speed limit....

Which, of course, there isn't one on the Mountain road.

[Grianane]

But you'd still be restricted, on L or R plates you are not supposed to exceed 50mph

[macks]

You may argue that it would be reasonable to expect Datsuns to be driving ovr the mountain at 40mph but I would also argue that they should reasonably be expecting people to be going a sight faster than 40mph on a nice, smooth, unrestricted road.

Correct, if they were on their driving test they would not be deemed as 'making progress', and seen as unecessarily holding up traffic. 60mph would be deemed as 'making progress' on the mountain in a car. Depending on the conditions of course.

The speed limit for learners is 50 mph so driving at 60mph would guarrantte a fail.Making satisfactory progress can be affected by lots of things not least traffic and visibility. So if you can't see round a bend up ahead you should be making assumtions that there could be a slower moving vehicle up ahead and adjust your speed accordingly.

[Rich]

To be fair, that stupid quote was not ai_Droid's - it was stu peters.

 

That's very true, I messed up somewhere.

 

My point is that if someone feels safer driving at a speed then they are able to do so. You should expect any hazard around any bend so if you're driving at a speed where by you can't stop for a hazard round a bend you're driving too fast.

 

I don't see many tractors doing 60 and yet they're able to drive on the roads, it's also not illegal to drive at a slow speed last time I checked.

 

Doing 60 you're hardly likely to plough into the back of a car travelling at 40.

 

What I see usually is when people get held up they start making irrational overtaking maneuvers and if they're not doing that they're hugging their bumper until they get a chance. This seems to happen rain or shine.

 

The mountain is probably the worst spot for poor driving on the island, where speed is a factor.

[ai_Droid]

My point is that if someone feels safer driving at a speed then they are able to do so. You should expect any hazard around any bend so if you're driving at a speed where by you can't stop for a hazard round a bend you're driving too fast.

 

Spot on.

[slinkydevil]

My point is that if someone feels safer driving at a speed then they are able to do so. You should expect any hazard around any bend so if you're driving at a speed where by you can't stop for a hazard round a bend you're driving too fast.

 

Spot on.

 

40mph on main road (unrestricted area Douglas - Peel), go round blind bend, 3 horses at 4mph with a bit of swaying into road. That's happened to me and I have had to swing out to other lane to avoid them luckily no cars coming in the opposite direction.

 

So now I need to slow down to 15 - 20 mph on every blind corner just in case?

[=^..^=]

40mph on main road (unrestricted area Douglas - Peel), go round blind bend, 3 horses at 4mph with a bit of swaying into road. That's happened to me and I have had to swing out to other lane to avoid them luckily no cars coming in the opposite direction.

So now I need to slow down to 15 - 20 mph on every blind corner just in case?

 

You know they are going to say "Yes" as everyone on this forum is the best driver in the world, everyone knows every rule of the road & obeys them to the letter, they can predict what is around the next corner and is aware of the precise speed that the weather conditions dictate they can drive at. And of course they drive with consideration all the time without exception.

 

I know I do. Or at least I do right up until the point I get out of my seat and leave my computer

[Mr. Sausages]

40mph on main road (unrestricted area Douglas - Peel), go round blind bend, 3 horses at 4mph with a bit of swaying into road. That's happened to me and I have had to swing out to other lane to avoid them luckily no cars coming in the opposite direction.

So now I need to slow down to 15 - 20 mph on every blind corner just in case?

 

You know they are going to say "Yes" as everyone on this forum is the best driver in the world, everyone knows every rule of the road & obeys them to the letter, they can predict what is around the next corner and is aware of the precise speed that the weather conditions dictate they can drive at. And of course they drive with consideration all the time without exception.

 

I know I do. Or at least I do right up until the point I get out of my seat and leave my computer

 

Whilst there may well be holier than thou hypocritical posts made on the internet, that wouldn't be much comfort to someone who's made a mistake (such as the above) and is sitting in a gaol cell as a result. So, yes, the answer is actually "yes".

[Mr. Sausages]

You've missed something blindingly obvious. Bad driving causes collisions. Collisions at speed cause death.

[Stu Peters]

My take on the 'speed kills' debate is quite simple - it's a discredited campaign that bad drivers cling to as a personal mantra to excuse their own lack of ability. I'm not claiming any supernatural driving skills (although I've at least made the effort to improve by doing the IAM course), admit to being pretty crap on a motorbike and have posted here honestly about making mistakes behind the wheel.

 

I firmly believe that it's not speed, but bad driving that kills. And there's as much bad driving at 20-30mph as there is at 80-100mph - the difference is that at least the faster driver is focused on the task and not daydreaming and wondering why there are a dozen people queuing impatiently behind him/her when the road ahead is perfectly clear.

 

One of the best sites I've seen is Safespeed. The guy behind it is vehemently against the rash of speed cameras in the UK, but he has facts and figures on road safety in general that fly in the face of the official line.

[ans]

And there's as much bad driving at 20-30mph as there is at 80-100mph - the difference is that at least the faster driver is focused on the task and not daydreaming and wondering why there are a dozen people queuing impatiently behind him/her when the road ahead is perfectly clear.

 

No, the difference is the impact a mistake at 20-30mph has compared with at 80-100mph.

 

There is absolutely no case whatsoever for blaming slow drivers for causing accidents. None. It's not them that cause it, it's inconsiderate arseholes like you who dont have the patience to delay your journey by a few minutes. If you find yourself being impatient on the road because someone is driving slower than you would, then you have self control issues and you dont deserve to be on the road. Get off.

[wideload]

Quite some time has obviously passed since you took your driving test.

 

And your point presumably is that doing 40 on the mountain would result in failing one's test?

 

yep, if you travel between one speed restriction and another on your test you will be expected to speed up to demonstrate that you have seen the change in speed limit.

 

when travelling into an unrestricted section the examiner would expect you to speed up (depending on conditions and traffic) to just under the 50mph speed limit of L plates

[ai_Droid]

My take on the 'speed kills' debate is quite simple - it's a discredited campaign that bad drivers cling to as a personal mantra to excuse their own lack of ability. I'm not claiming any supernatural driving skills (although I've at least made the effort to improve by doing the IAM course), admit to being pretty crap on a motorbike and have posted here honestly about making mistakes behind the wheel.

 

 

Sites like safespeed do not have the scientific authority to discredit anything. It's one guy with a mission, none of his research is even remotely scientific or verifiable, and his attempts to discredit the campaigns advertising have all been reviewed and rejected.

 

 

I firmly believe that it's not speed, but bad driving that kills. And there's as much bad driving at 20-30mph as there is at 80-100mph - the difference is that at least the faster driver is focused on the task and not daydreaming and wondering why there are a dozen people queuing impatiently behind him/her when the road ahead is perfectly clear.

 

The effect of an impact is very different at the higher speeds, that's the important point isn't it?

 

I personally believe that overconfidence and risks taken by people who think they're fantastic drivers in souped up cars blasting round the roads as if they're racing tracks cause many tragedies on our roads. Yes there's crap drivers, yes they also increase the risks. Road safetey could be improved by:

 

1) improving driver skills

2) reducing speeds

3) improving cars safety

 

I don't see why petrolheads think that 1 & 3 negate 2. Well, I do, they're having too much of a lark on the roads and don't want to give it up.

[rallybug]

I don't see many tractors doing 60 and yet they're able to drive on the roads, it's also not illegal to drive at a slow speed last time I checked.

 

Because tractors are limited to 40mph maximum, less with a trailer.

 

Maybe some want to see one of these at each end of the derestriction sign:

 

 

I wouldn't say that 40mph over the mountain would come in as driving too slowly for the conditions - no doubt it is an annoyance to someone moving at a higher speed to reach the slower driver at a point that is not safe for an overtake, but unless you are unlucky with the volume of oncoming traffic, you wouldn't have to wait long to overtake the other vehicle. One thing I do find annoying is the drivers who decide to put their foot down as you start to overtake - what was a safe and easy overtake before now has the added bonus of lengthening the room need to make the overtake.

[Grianane]

Regrettably there's no limits to what people can drive once their licenced, I and I'm sure many other people had a go a "fast driving" trouble was my first car woudln't actually do 80mph. Even the small cars these days are capable of 100mph plus, and there is a mindset in young drivers that you have to push your vehicle to its limit.

 

Rather than focusing almost solely on reducing speed, we should emphasise the whole range of safe driving skills

 

 Education: In hazard anticipation skills, not just telling drivers to slow down.

 Engineering: To improve roads and remove hazards, not obstruct traffic.

 Enforcement: Aimed at those causing danger, whatever their speed.

 

In appropriate conditions, and where its legal and safe to do so, there's no reason why people shouldn't drive faster, they just need to be educated into knowing when its appropriate and when its bloody dangerous.